First Spouse gold...Are they Bullion or Collectibles??

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Curio Bill, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Curio Bill

    Curio Bill Junior Member

    First Spouse gold...Are they Bullion or Collectibles?? Or Both?? They carry some premium over spot (but not really any more than gold buffs) & they are mighty purty (well some of them are)
     
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  3. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    My feeling is they are collectibles. Forget classifying these issues as bullion 'cause you're payin' way too much over spot. In short, buy bullion but collect the spouses....:)
     
  4. Danr

    Danr Numismatist

    buy as many as you can and melt them, but really you can get some issues for a tiny premium over melt, others bring a bit more. Definitely do not buy these from the mint get the older ones from ebay or elsewhere for melt, the mint charges way too much over melt. BTW they are pure gold and a half ounce.
     
  5. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    I think they are collectible bullion ;)

    Sure, some of the 2007 coins can be bought now for melt or near it because the people buying those coins bought them for $425 or so each and are selling at a profit. And yeah, the grumpy dealers at shows say they're only worth melt if you sell to them, but none of them are selling them back to collectors at melt!!! Try to find any of the 2009 spouse coins and melt and I imagine you won't be able to do so. Not many folks are going to buy from the mint at 35% over melt and then turn around and sell for that big of a loss.

    Of course, if anyone has any of the 2009 Spouse coins for melt prices, PM me!!! I'm buying ;)

    Pretty much only the 2007 coins trade near melt because so many flippers bought them up early on trying to make quick profits and now there are just too many on the market w/ 20,000 proofs and 20,000 uncs for each issue... but once the flippers gave up on the series the mintages dropped significantly and the prices are staying near the mint issue prices in my observations.
     
  6. danisanub

    danisanub Finance Major

    is the ebay cost lower than the mint? If so, I guess sellers are operating at a loss
     
  7. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector


    For the recent releases I'd say not really... I just ran a search for completed listings of the last two Tyler Spouse coins and all of them were either higher than the mint prices or right about the same. Usually the higher prices were for certified 70 coins and the lower prices were for certified 69 coins. The raw coins w/ original packaging do a little better than the certified 69 coins I think. I only saw one Tyler spouse, a PCGS 69 sell for under mint issue price (by around $20 or so).

    The older coins, like the 2007 washington and adams coins will sell for around melt now ($475-$500 per coin), but remember, that too is well above mint issue prices which were $400-$425 at the time those were released. Not sure many folks are taking losses on this series yet.
     
  8. danisanub

    danisanub Finance Major

    Hm I suppose that 2007 gold spouses are a good investment in terms of buying near spot.

    I'll look into it
     
  9. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    If you do look into it, I'd focus on the Jefferson's Liberty coin, just a great design and I think there will be much more long term demand for that one vs. either the Washington or the Adams as many folks will want to buy the 4-coin Liberty subset.
     
  10. danisanub

    danisanub Finance Major

    Thanks for the advice, I think I'll grab one with my next paycheck
     
  11. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Jefferson Liberty is the only spouse coin I own. Classic beauty....:)
     
  12. Chiefbullsit

    Chiefbullsit CRAZY HORSE


    Me to.........:hail:
    Its in my gallery.
     
  13. hontonai

    hontonai Registered Contrarian

  14. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    Bullion now but 20yr from now maybe a rare coin. they only mint 40,000. of each PR & MS
     
  15. elaine 1970

    elaine 1970 material girl

    collectible except the first three with 20,000 mintage.
     
  16. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    And most were melted when Gold spiked.
     
  17. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I agree. They will probably sell for some premium above spot in the future but will never command the premium of a circulation coin. Collectors don't seem to be impressed with artificial scarcity by intentionally small mintages. The US Mint [and others] use the artificial scarcity trick to sell for premiums, but most people seem to have caught on.
     
  18. jaceravone

    jaceravone Member

    Cloudsweeper....how can you call these "artificially scare"? The mintages are what they are. These numbers are driven by the number of collectors who are actually purchasing these. And then your comment about the mint using "artificial scarcity" to trick collectors so they can sell for higher premiums is absurd.

    For the past year, I have been wanting to address this issue, but I wanted to do it right with the correct info, but obviously this is something that needs to be address now. The mint is a business first and foremost that operates like any other business at a profit. Just because they are the "US Mint" doesn't mean that they are buying gold or any other precious metal at a discount. Why would the people who mine these metals sell them at a discount when they can just turn around and sell them anywhere else for at least melt or more likely a profit. They are a for profit business too. Next once that gold is mined, it has to be sent off to be extracted and processed in pure ore. That costs money. Next that ore has to be sent off and mixed into the correct purity for the coins. That costs money. Next the gold metal is now made into coining strips and rolled into big rolls. That costs money. Then once this achieved, it is shipped off to the mint. This costs money. Then through several processes, those metal strips are then worked on until planchets are stamped from them. That costs money. Then comes the whole burnishing process and actual minting process. That costs money. Don't forget the very nice packaging that the coins come in.....because, yes, that costs money too.

    Regardless of whether or not I forgot a few processes above or things are out of order, the point that everyone forgets is that it costs money to get from the gold mines to your house. That is the surcharge that is being charged. Once you all realize this, buying these coins at the prices that the mint charges becomes a little bit less painful. Notice how I didn't say painless, just less painful. Someone has to pay for all those cost and that person is you...... as it should be. This mint is into making money. You can't make money if you give stuff away.

    I know this first hand because I own a business that deals with a process very similar to above. Customers love the end product, but they just don't realize what costs go into making the ending product. Those that get it come back and those that don't get it, don't come back. That is just life and business.
     
  19. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    jaceravone,

    I see nothing in your post to make me rethink my position. The Mint has been speeding up the turnover time for their products in recent years. Modern technology makes it economically feasible for them to put out multiple designs with smaller mintages -- i.e., artificial scarcity. Absent packaging, I doubt that it costs the Mint more than a few cents more to produce a spouse than an AGE, and a $39.95 silver commem probably costs less to produce than a common ASE. If the market will bear this fraud, within a few years you can expect an even greater number of even lower mintage coins over the next few years. They are doing this with circulation coinage also. I'm not telling you not to collect all of this junk. I'm just telling you why I won't collect it unless I can purchase them for bullion coin prices -- which is basically what they are.
     
  20. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Boys, boys, it's only bullion if you purchase it at bullion prices. Otherwise it's a collectable.
     
  21. jaceravone

    jaceravone Member

    So let me make sure I understand what I think you are saying......because the mint is putting out more coins every year, this means that there is more options to chose from and therefore, less overall money to go around to buy the coins which then therefore drives the overall mintages down? If this is what you are saying that I agree with you. This is what I am interpreting that you are saying otherwise, I have no clue what you are trying to say. I agree with the first half of your statement about how modern technology makes it economically feasible to put put out multiple designs but I disagree with the final part when you say "smaller mintages". Overall mintages are based on demand and affordability. We know that there is less of a demand for the FS coins than the AGE. Affordablility is something totally separate. Would I love to purchase the AGE set....sure...but can I afford to..... no. I choose to purchase the FS coins instead. So does that drive down the mintages of the AGE coins because I can't afford to buy them.....yes. But that is just life.

    After doing some research comparing the pricing of the 2008 FS coins and the 2008 AGE W coins (have to compare apples to apples) I don't see much of a price difference. Seems like the prices are almost identical. As far as the ASE and a proof commem, this is not comparing apples to apples. You forget that a surcharge is added to ALL commems. This in turn raises the prices. Take out that surcharge and I bet that the prices between the two coins will be almost exactly the same.

    I know what you are trying to say. I take no offense to any of it. This wouldn't be America if we all thought alike. There is nothing wrong with trying to buy these coins for bullion prices and I am excited for you if you are able to do so. Unfortunately, we won't know until you and I are old and grey if these coins are going to be worth a darn and hopefully for my sake, they will be.
     
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