I think I found a entire new reason to collect, at least collect those coins I could not afford otherwise. Listed below are some of the ones I have. 1943 Copper Cent Brasher Dubloon 1887 Fugio Cent 1915 $50 Panama Pacific Gold 1852 Confederate $10 gold
I don't like fakes, but i have 2 of them one is a Fugio Cent and the other is a 1916-d merc. I don't like the dime but it's better than a hole
my problem is with fakes are unless they say copy on the coin. I might know it is a fake, you might know it is a fake but when you sell your collection that fake might endup in a dealers hand that might sell it to a new or non collector as a real coin. CHRIS
I'd rather put an unstruck blank/planchet in an unfilled hole. Who's to say my cent blank did not come from Denver in 1914? Fakes, copies, and repros just don't do it for me. There are some modern reproductions that I think are pretty and I would buy them for that reason but not to fill a hole. I just can't think of them as coins...
I don't like them, want them, or need them. Not for me either. No offense to those who do like them tho --- each to their own.
I know I can't afford many of the keys to my main sets...the Lincolns and the Mercs. I recently purchased a 1914-D Lincoln for a song...cleaned and damaged, but guess what? It's real, and it fills the hole. I don't really have a problem with fakes that are not meant to defraud...for example, I might buy a reproduction if it is well done of something that I will never in my life be able to afford...a Pan Pac $50 or an Ultra high relief saint...or a 33 saint for that matter! Little chance of anyone thinking any of those could be real!
This is an inaccurate way to describe those whose collecting practices differ from you own. Some people like collecting replicas, other don't, but those who collect replicas aren't suckers. A replica can be an interesting adjunct to an authentic coin of the same type you already have -- a variation on a theme. Likewise, a medal based on the same coin design can be another variation on the same theme. Owning a replica can also be a way to appreciate a coin that would otherwise cost many thousands or even millions of dollars. The replicas of the 1933 Saint come to mind. There's actually a whole range of coin copies, not just replicas, than can be interesting to collect. Copies of ancient coins, to me, are particularly interesting, but copies of U.S. coins can have their appeal too. Here's a list I put together recently about ancient coin copies: Ancient Coins and Copies Here's one way to categorize the types of ancient coins and their copies available on the marketplace: * Original ancients -- authentic ancient coins with original designs struck in good metal by official mints in ancient times * Classical contemporary imitations -- authentic ancient coins of the Greek/Roman or Greek/Roman-influenced world whose style imitates a previous Greek/Roman issue and are often more artistic and compelling than their inspiration (Note: Included here are issues that borrow just one side from a previous issue) * Nonclassical contemporary imitations -- authentic ancient coins of good metal struck outside the classical world in ancient times but imitating the designs of Greek or Roman coins (often crudely or illiterately but sometimes with an abstract flair); often called barbarous copies * Ancient counterfeits -- plated coins (fourees) struck unofficially in ancient times as circulating currency and meant to deceive people into thinking the forgeries are of good metal; often called contemporary counterfeits, though "contemporaneous" is the more accurate word * Official fourees -- plated coins struck officially in ancient times as emergency circulating currency and usually not meant to deceive * Modern pedigreed counterfeits -- forgeries struck in good metal by well-known counterfeiters, such as Giovanni Cavino, Ferdinand de Saint-Urbain, Carl Wilheim Becker, Caprara, Luigi Cigoi, M. Sazonov, or Constantinos Christodoulou * Modern struck counterfeits -- forgeries struck in good metal in modern times as collectibles and meant to deceive collectors * Modern electrotype counterfeits -- forgeries electrotyped in good metal in modern times as collectibles and meant to deceive collectors * Modern tourist copies -- counterfeits typically cast and often made of a base metal (pewter, white metal, pot metal, bronze, etc.) and often sold in source countries to tourists by natives claiming to have just found them * Modern pedigreed replicas -- copies made by the Bulgarian Slavey Petrov or the Czech Pavel Neumann (Antiquanova) and usually struck or pressed using good metal as collectibles, sometimes marked with the word "COPY," "REPLICA," or other countermark, sometimes unmarked but without a flagrant intention to deceive * Modern museum replicas -- copies sold by museums such as the British Museum, the Smithsonian Institution, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and the J. Paul Getty Museum, typically cast or electrotyped and made of a base metal, almost always marked with the word "COPY," "REPLICA," or other countermark (Note: Not included here are replicas made by commercial replica makers with the word "Museum" in their names, such as Gallery Mint Museum, Alva Museum Reproductions, and Museum Reproductions) * Modern cast replicas -- copies made by replica makers, usually cast and made of a base metal, usually marked with the word "COPY," "REPLICA," or other countermark * Modern jewelry replicas -- copies premade with a hole or clasp, typically cast, and made of either good or base metal * Modern fantasies -- pieces made with design elements or motifs from ancient coins but not intending to replicate the look of any specific ancient coin * Modern coin imitations -- circulating coins with a key design element that imitates that of an ancient coin * Modern medal imitations -- medals with a key design element that imitates that of an ancient coin
To those who can afford the real thing my hats off to you. Being of a curious nature I like looking at all coins as they would appear while in use. The coins listed I could not ever afford, however, I have them for reference just in case I find one in a junk box. All the coins I have have copy on the reverse, no one will pass these as real.
Ersatz Copies of Replica Evasions It gets compllicated. I do not collect coins by date and Mint, so I do not look to copies for "filler." I personally find copies unsatisfying as fillers. I have a blank space for my 1916-D Mercury and that is the truth of the matter. Mr. Goldsborough's taxonomy of ancient fakes has grown to cover all of the options I can think of. This came as a result of long (and sometimes painful) discussions on rec.collecting.coins. In terms of other fakes, the Red Book lists "Bungtown Coppers." These were evasions (fakes) of British copper coins that circulated pretty much by weight in the New World and other places. These are true, numismatic collectibles, a form of money, just not issued by a government. Similarly, in the 1790s, in response to the same need for small change, the "Provincial Tokens" or "Conder Tokens" were issued by taverns. Soon, other people made them, mostly for advertising. John Wilkinson, the iron master issued many and he was so popular (iron bridges, etc.) that fakes of his tokens were struck and circulated. Eventually, some tokens were made just for collectors and never for circulation and at about that time, the whole thing collapsed when the British Mint finally began to get the problem solved (at least temporarily). So, all of those "fake" Conders, the Wilkinsons, etc., are indeed truly proper numismatic items. I have in the past had some Gallery Mint items just to see in the flesh (so to speak) how the coins looked. Pictures are not as real as the object you can hold in your hand. But I perceived them myself as just that: simulations of the real thing in order to illuminate for me what the real thing really looked like. Other fakes don't do it for me. I agree that there is a problem with fakes taking on a life of their own. There are probably more fake 1877 Indians than real ones. There was the time that Bill Swoger, a pretty well-known and respectable collector from Michigan, got hold of some dies for 17th century Irish coins (ducats, I think, gold coins) and he struck the copies over Canadian quarters and British sovereigns. He took them to Liberty Coins in Lansing to show off his handiwork. They took the gold coins in back, crushed them in a vice and gave them back. The silver coins -- being in the wrong metal -- were not judged so egregious. Said one employee: "Degrees of wrongitude." That's how I see fakes: you have to know your degrees of wrongitude and stay on the sunny side of the street. ------------
Hi sorry it took a few days to post a reply to this but I was out of town. First I would never knok any one else collection or collecting habits. We are to small a hobby with competion with the internet , MTV and other things to turn people away by making fun of what they collect. That said my referance to there is a sucker born every minuite was refering to Chrysta's statement that no one would be fooled by a 1933 saint and that is not true. There are countless people mostley unifomed and the bagin hunterstheat are taken every day buying counterfit coins that anyone who has a thread of knowledge in coinage knows it has to be a fake(well they just sold a 1933 saint. So there must be some more around and I heard that the rest are illagal so that is why this nice young man called me and offering me such a bargin price of $1,00.00 for one) They prey on older people's fears and insercuritys. that is why AARP has done much in the way of teaching and informing thier members on scams like this and many others like it. I now have a question for you all. I heard a few years before I started collecting because of less than honest dealers ripping off the public Congress was looking at our hobby with the attempt of them steeping in and regulating it. that is why PNG was formed to allow the coin industry to be self regulating. 1) How much of this is true. 2) With scams like this how soon do you think the goverment will step back in? CHRIS
Quote "I now have a question for you all. I heard a few years before I started collecting because of less than honest dealers ripping off the public Congress was looking at our hobby with the attempt of them steeping in and regulating it. that is why PNG was formed to allow the coin industry to be self regulating. 1) How much of this is true. 2) With scams like this how soon do you think the goverment will step back in? CHRIS" :arrow: Would make for interesting conversation, however, if the gov't tried to regulate the hobby would go underground for the most part. As far as unscrupulous dealers, they have allways been around. The current big ripoff is on QVC and HSN and the guys selling a treasure chest full of silver coins for $29.95 plus $6.95 shipping and handling. All of this for a few silver coins basically not worth having except for silver value. These guys are ripping off the general public which gives all dealers a bad name albeit some deserved some not. The public's only defense is to educate itself the way the hobbyists have had to. Remember, if a deal sounds to good to be true it probably is a raw deal. :mrgreen:
My interest in counterfeits, replicas, and other copies of coins led to the online discussions, sometimes heated, about them, in rec.collecting.coins. (The interest of others also played a part of course.) The list I posted here resulted from my interest. I've always been interested in them, primarily from an educational perspective (how I can prevent myself, and others, from getting cheated). But copies are also intrinsically interesting, with the most interesting, to me, being the older ones (fourees, barbarous copies).
Not really a big fan of fakes unless they say 'copy' on them. Back when I was young (the earth was still cooling), and hadn't been exposed to a whole lot of coins or knowledge about them, I bought a seated liberty half dollar at a flea market. The coin was (in my opinion at the time) about a EF with lots of detail. After getting it home, I was transfering from its original worn-out 2x2 into one of my holders and accidently dropped it on the desk....THUD! Thud? Well, it was then I knew something was up. After showing it around to a dealer friend, we determined that it was indeed counterfeit...a cast copy. I didn't pay a fortune for it, but have kept it just the same to show others what to look out for.
I wouldn't consider the 1943 copper cent you have as a fake. Well it is but pretend coin sounds more fair. That coin will not trick a collector. It is for your own enjoyment. Personally, the reason I don't purchase fakes is because may allow illegitimate companies to make a profit and increase their operations for future fraudulent activities. Some companies may start by stamping "copy" on a coin until the coin looks near perfect and remove it.
