Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ColonialCoin4, May 2, 2017.

  1. ColonialCoin4

    ColonialCoin4 Active Member

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  3. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    He has them listed as reproductions. Considering his shipping nonsense, I wonder if he is filling orders from China as he gets them on eBay. New seller, no feedback. Very good reasons for his selling price.
  4. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    So someone is selling fake Morgans for $8 each. Why the warning? Or were you implying it is a good deal which someone should jump on?
  5. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

  6. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    These are not being sold in the USA
  7. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    There is. Well, unless your name is a certain four-letter word and you've an army of fans making every ridiculous excuse imaginable as to why one is perfectly wonderful, and the other nothing but trash. ;)
    ColonialCoin4 likes this.
  8. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    No, but they are openly offering to ship them here....

    "we ship the item via USPS to USA ( 19-45 days for shipping)...."
    ColonialCoin4 likes this.
  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    That's perfectly legal in China as well. The seller is doing nothing illegal. Now if you buy one and have it shipped to you then YOU are the one breaking the law, not the seller. (it's illegal to import them.)
  10. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    @Conder101, do you have the actual wording of the law/statute?

    I thought it was only illegal if you were planning on defrauding someone, selling them again as genuine, etc.

    Edit: I found this:

    "Collectible Coin Protection Act - Amends the Hobby Protection Act to make it a violation of such Act for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller if that person knows or should have known that such manufacturer, importer, or seller has engaged in any act or practice that violates requirements for plainly identifying... imitation coins and other numismatic items."

  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    What you quoted is the section under the HPA that makes Ebay liable by providing the sales site for the fakes.

    Their is no requirement that the person importing them has to be doing it withthe intent to defraud, the mere act of reselling them, even if sold as non-genuine, is illegal if they are not marked. Actual text of the relevant section.

    (b) COINS AND OTHER NUMISMATIC ITEMS.—The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

    From what can see, if you buy them and bring them in to hold them for your personal use and never resell them or pass them on then it could be considered legal. (Of course if you pass on and your heirs sell the unmarked copies they would be breaking the law I think.)

    The actual text of the section you were refering to in your quote.

    (d) PROVISION OF ASSISTANCE OR SUPPORT.—It shall be a violation of subsection (a) or (b) for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller if that person knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller is engaged in any act or practice that violates subsection (a) or (b).

    The whole text of the HPA can be found here

  12. Michael Wade

    Michael Wade New Member

  13. HawkeEye

    HawkeEye 1881-O VAMmer

    There was an article in the news about the Secret Service arresting some of these guys out on the west coast a few months ago. I actually bought one to see what the quality was and to check the detail for our web site. The seller tried to convince me that even though these are legal tender they could be faked and sold because the Mint no longer made them. I believe they have to be stamped as "copy" and sold as a novelty to skirt the law, which these guys rarely do. As I remember there were some YouTube videos on visiting one of these Chinese factories where they make the fakes.
    Alok Verma likes this.
  14. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    And what was your opinion? Would they fool anyone with a bit of knowledge?
  15. Alok Verma

    Alok Verma Explorer

    In India also many of the sellers are frequently selling fake coins at ebay and other auctioneers. These fake coins are being purchased by Indian as well as foreign collectors. I think there are many senior numismatist on this platform of COIN TALK who can suggest us an action to prevent selling of fake coins on ebay like organisation.
  16. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    There's virtually nothing that can be done from this end to stop it, other than the Secret Service taking an interest in it. And the overall problem is a tea party compared with the counterfeiting of designer merchandise, watches, etc.
  17. TheMont

    TheMont Well-Known Member

    Here's a few conterfeit coins from my coin clubs collection. They are easy to detect, some respond to a magnet, some aren't close in weight to a real one, and some just plain look fake.

    Conterfeit coins.jpg
  18. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    Huh, the seller has 3 listings for "Real tulip flower bulbs". I wonder if they're fake as well?
    ColonialCoin4, Stevearino and sakata like this.
  19. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    It's just a bloody onion! (jk- I didn't even look)
    Dave Waterstraat likes this.
  20. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    Well, you know the story (supposedly true but who knows) of the high-valued tulip left out at the height of the craze and someone cut into it thinking it was an onion. That's one reason why gold is better than tulips as a store of value.
  21. HawkeEye

    HawkeEye 1881-O VAMmer

    Once you got the coin in hand it was obviously a fake. Too light and magnetic. We actually tried to VAM it, which was not possible because the obverse was from 1881 and the reverse from a different year.

    Here is a link to the write up I did on the coin http://www.1881o.com/fakes.html Things like this are an interesting study and we did high res scans like we do on all our coins. When you look at the high res scan you will see that the obverse was actually struck on a used Peace Dollar die because Liberty looks like she has horns http://www.1881o.com/assets/81o-fake-obv-2200.jpg
    sakata likes this.
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