Did it CAC? 1832 Half Dime

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Publius2, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I don't speak authoritatively by any means, but I believe it is the same for circulated coins as it is for MS coins: To merit a gold bean, the coin must be under-graded by the TPG by at least one grade. For example, if the coin has a TPG grade of VF-25, CAC deems it should have been graded VF-30, so it merits a Gold bean. Of course, if CAC thought that VF-25 coin should have been graded VF-35, it would still get a gold bean and the observer would have no idea that CAC thought it was under-graded by two grades. Probably happens only very rarely.

    Another unknown with regard to the Gold bean is this: With our hypothetical VF-25-graded coin that gets a Gold bean, what does that tell us about how CAC would consider that coin at the next higher grade. In other words, would that VF-25 coin be considered an A, B, or C grade coin at the next higher grade of VF-30? I don't know and I'm not certain anyone knows except maybe the magi in the inner sanctum of the CAC temple. But I don't think CAC tells us or even implies that a Gold bean would guarantee a Green bean at the next higher grade. I suspect they believe that no general policy should exist for this question because each coin must be evaluated on its own merits.
     
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  3. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Does this animal exist? No reason there are not any out there, but a quick online search didn't show me any.
     
  4. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I went to the CAC website and clicked the "Pop/Price Report" button, selected "Capped Bust Half Dimes" and then selected the button labeled "Change Sticker or Pop/Pricing" and then selected "Gold Pop". Up comes a list of all the Gold Stickers awarded to the various submissions of Capped Bust Half Dimes in all grades. You can see there a number of these coins awarded Gold Beans in circulated grades. I haven't checked any other series but I think it is safe to assume that what exists for Capped Bust Half Dimes exists for other series as well.
     
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  5. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Gac the Cac! It don,t mean nothin.
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    o_O:facepalm::confused::yack::yack::yack::yack:

    chascat, posted: "Gac the Cac! It don,t mean nothin***."

    *** "n:greedy:o:greedy:t:greedy:h:greedy:i:greedy:n:greedy:"

    :D
     
  7. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I have been buying and sending in eisenhower dollars. Randomly from random sellers. All MS67. I am buying what I perceive to be nice looking ones. Only about 30% have passed. Now that I have 10 passed and 20 failed I can look at the passed ones and the failed ones and can see what the bean coins have that the others don't. It is hard to see in pictures of the coins. But in hand the details on the passed coins are sharper and consistent. I can now see why the failed coins failed. And I don't think bumping them down to ms66 would get a bean on most of them. The details just aren't as sharp. Now I'm trying to learn how to see this in images to be able to determine if one will pass before I even buy it.
     
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  8. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    Father time will ensure that new eyes look at all of these coins in the future. If we could remove all of the beans from existing slabs I wonder how many previously "beaned" coins will fail and how many failed coins will get "beaned"? Subjectivity is another subject.
     
  9. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Before seeing the reveal my thought was that it did sticker but I wouldn't sticker it (just something about the coin that didn't appeal to me). CAC does baffle me occasionally-quite a bit lately with anything in the seated series.
     
  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    They have a database, so they could get it right 100% of the time. :p

    It would be interesting to see; my guess is that they would be fairly consistent. It's still a yes or no call (for most since there aren't that many golds) so at worst 50/50 odds that each coin gets the same result and it really should be better than that since a good deal of coins should be obvious sticker/no sticker calls.
     
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  11. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    The one interview that is published with JA, he states that a Gold CAC is a coin that should Green sticker at the next grade. That suggests it is a minimum of a B coin in the next grade (based on the definition of a green being A or B for the grade).

    https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/mysterious-cac-gold-stickers.html

    "What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”

    He adds that the vast majority of the coins that receive CAC gold stickers are not great rarities, but just relatively common coins that are exceptional for the grade."
     
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  12. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    There are non-MS Gold CACs.

    Here is an AU 55 Gold CAC Morgan from a GC auction. It's the first example that came up in my searches (not the most attractive coin in my opinion and I don't know what CAC saw-a high end AU 58?).

    https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...Silver-Dollar-PCGS-AU-55-CAC-Gold-Label-Toned
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

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  14. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Now that's about as definitive as it's ever going to get! Thanks, @ddddd, for posting that and ending my uncertainty. Now, maybe I can get you to address my 2021 tax issues?
     
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  15. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    What taxes? I see no taxes. I hear no taxes. I speak no taxes. Thus there are no taxes.
    There you go. :D
     
  16. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. And, cheaper than my CPA.
     
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  17. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    The AU58 1832 H 10c is a low end unattractive coin IMO and the sticker means nothing to me.
     
  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Derek2200, posted: "The AU58 1832 H 10c is a low end unattractive coin IMO and the sticker means nothing to me."

    Thanks for your comment and opinion. Every poster in the thread has one. I'll even add that I would not pay the "market value" money to put that coin into my collection either. ;)

    The important thing for everyone here to remember is that our opinions (me & my above) don't matter at all in the real world :jawdrop:where a number of very successful :greedy::greedy::greedy: professionals :bookworm::cigar: have decided how that coin should be graded (valued).

    To put it simply: Who cares what you :yawn: or I :yawn: think. Because of that, I'll save my post count for times when I can say something nice :happy: about another collector's coin!
     
  19. bikergeek

    bikergeek Active Member

    @Publius2, I owned that LM-12 for a bit over a year. My photos are a little kinder to it than yours (read: softer focus perhaps?) and bring out the colors in the toning. I thought it was (and is) a lovely coin, but like a lot of folks here I didn't think it would CAC. I upgraded to a 64 (at multiples of the price) and let this one go. The die chip in the lower loop of the 8, and the bulge on the azures in the shield, are part of what makes this a very cool marriage. My MS64 has pretty well separated azures. I suspect a much earlier die state than your coin here. Congrats on the green bean!

    1832 LM-12 AU58 NGC 4664078-002 Obv.JPG 1832 LM-12 AU58 NGC 4664078-002 Rev.JPG
     
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  20. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for posting that. I'll add "bikergeek" to my provenance list for this coin!

    Everything I hoped for on this thread was accomplished. We had an illuminating discussion of CAC standards
     
  21. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Very nice looking coin.
     
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