Featured Cracker’s Remorse – Second Thoughts on the Dansco 7070 U.S. Type Set

About a year ago, I posted my experience in building a high grade type set over on the CU Forum and a comment posted on my ANA show report last month made me realize that some of you folks on Coin Talk may find my experience interesting and informative.

August 2008

When I got back into coin collecting after about 10 years or so, I became fascinated by the 7070 type sets that have been posted by the members of the forum. Just getting back into collecting after some time off, I figured the completion of one of these type sets would be fun and allow me to learn a little bit on each type, the goal of which would be to figure out which ones I like the most and help me direct my future collecting. I also liked the way the album looked when complete and didn’t care for slabs much, having never owned a professional graded coin at the time I decided to start my set.

I had originally planned to complete my 7070 type set (including the gold page) using only proof coins cracked from original proof sets for the moderns and/or PCGS and NGC graded coins from AU55-MS70 so that I could better learn how to grade coins (and to minimize overpaying on the more expensive ones because of my lack of grading ability).

At first, I had a blast filling the easy holes by breaking open modern proof sets and cutting up older proof sets as I was able to fill over a dozen spots in no time at all. I also had no second thoughts on cracking many $50-$500 dollar slabbed coins over the next few months as I tackled many of the moderately easy spots in the album.

However, around six to eight months into my 7070 type set project, I had around half of the 7070 album holes filled, and probably another 20 or so coins valued from $300-$4000 each still in the slabs. I even made a couple of extra pages to hold the inserts from the cracked slabs

Here’s some pictures of my album at that time:




And a couple pictures of the extra pages I added for the slab inserts:



The coins I had cracked and put in the album up to that time were:

1863 Indian Head Cent PCGS MS64
1909 VDB Lincoln Cent NGC MS64RD
1943-S Lincoln Cent PCGS MS66
1980-S Lincoln Cent Proof

1883 Shield Nickel NGC MS64
1883 Liberty Nickel No Cents NGC MS64
1883 Liberty Nickel w/ Cents PCGS MS65
1913-D Buffalo Nickel Type 1 PCGS MS65
1931-S Buffalo Nickel NGC MS65
1980-S Jefferson Nickel Proof
1945-S Jefferson Nickel PCGS MS66

1891-S Seated Dime NGC MS62
1892 Barber Dime PCGS MS64
1916 Mercury Dime PCGS MS66FB
1957 Roosevelt Dime Proof
1996-W Roosevelt Dime PCGS MS66FB

1892 Barber Quarter PCGS AU55
1917 Standing Liberty Quarter Type 1 PCGS AU58FH
1928-D Standing Liberty Quarter NGC MS62
1956 Washington Quarter Proof
1980-S Washington Quarter Proof

1831 Bust Half Dollar NGC AU58
1892 Barber Half Dollar PCGS MS62
1916 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS MS62
1957 Franklin Half Dollar Proof
1964 Kennedy Half Dollar Proof
1980-S Kennedy Half Dollar Proof

1892 Columbian Half Dollar NGC MS64
1992-S Columbian Half Dollar Proof
1918 Lincoln Half Dollar PCGS MS64
1926-S Oregon Half Dollar PCGS MS65

1878 8TF Morgan Dollar PCGS MS63
1927 Peace Dollar NGC MS63
1971-S Ike Dollar Silver Proof

1976-S Silver Bicentennial Proof Set
1980-S Susan B. Anthony Dollar Proof
2003-S Sacagawea Dollar Proof
2003-S Illinois State Quarter Silver Proof
1992 Columbus Dollar Proof
2000 Silver Eagle Proof

1854 Gold Dollar NGC MS61
1909 $2.5 Indian NGC AU58
1909 $5 Indian NGC AU58
1898 $10 Liberty PCGS MS62
1909 $10 Indian NGC MS61
1909 $20 St. Gaudens NGC AU58

And here are some photos of the slabs that were pending a date with my slab smasher!!





It was right about that point, that I had serious second thoughts about whether I was really going to finish this project.

On the one hand, I really love the album and to that point had learned a great deal about coin types I hardly knew existed before I began. However, of the coins I cracked out of slabs and put in the album, I already knew that I wanted to upgrade a few of them for one reason or another. I soon learned that in order to sell the coins that I wanted to upgrade, I was going to need to get them reslabbed in order to get full retail value back out of them, otherwise, I was facing substantial losses in trying to sell a raw coin. Additionally, although I had already cracked many $500 or so coins, I really became uncomfortable with the thought of cracking out coins worth several thousand dollars each, knowing that if I wasn’t careful in cracking the slab, or if I were to catch one of the coins the wrong way with the plastic slides of the album it could be serious trouble to the coin and its value. In particular, I wasn’t comfortable cracking my $2500+ AU Classic Head Cent or the $1000+ MS64 Flying Eagle, AU55 Spiked Chin Half Cent as well as a few of the other higher value coins. Moreover, I feared that if I completed the album (at my projected cost of $30k-$40k) my family would never get anywhere close to that amount if something happened to me and they sold the coins. However, if the coins had still been in slabs they would be more likely to sell for a fair price.

With that in mind, and knowing that there was a good chance that I would likely want to upgrade most of the coins someday, I called it quits and decided that I was done cracking the slabs for the Dansco album!!! The decision was made somewhat easier as I had learned about the PCGS and NGC registry sets by that time and had also learned that the Dansco type set doesn’t include many of the types and isn’t truly a complete U.S. type set.

So, at that point I posted my experience above on the CU Forum and solicited the opinions of my fellow collectors which were extremely beneficial in helping me through my cracker’s remorse. Ultimately, I decided to abandon the Dansco 7070 U.S. Type Set altogether and to start a new set or two in the PCGS and NGC Registry (this is when I started my 1909 Mint Set as I already had several of the coins already and it’s sort of a mini type set). At the time I decided to send several of the cracked out coins back in for grading/slabbing and hope that I didn’t already cause any of them damage by cracking and putting them in the album. Also had many folks on the CU Forum who were interested in buying some of the raw and slabbed coins I had so that helped me out as well.


September 2009

A year later, and I still have my 7070 album, but it looks significantly different. The relatively inexpensive proof coins are still there as well as the entire modern page. Made several submissions of the cracked out coins (mostly with my free grading certificates when I joined both NGC and PCGS), sold several others and even have a couple of the coins still raw as reminders of my experience and the lessons I learned.

Here’s a brief breakdown of what happened to the cracked out coins listed above.

Sold raw:

1883 Shield Nickel NGC MS64 – sold for small loss, new owner said it graded PCGS MS63

1913-D Buffalo Nickel Type 1 PCGS MS65 – sold for small loss

1892 Barber Quarter PCGS AU55 – sold about what I paid

1917 Standing Liberty Quarter Type 1 PCGS AU58FH – sold for about what I paid

1926-S Oregon Half Dollar PCGS MS65 – sold for small loss


Re-Slabbed and sold most of these:

1863 Indian Head Cent PCGS MS64 – reslabbed as NGC MS64 and sold for small loss

1883 Liberty Nickel No Cents NGC MS64 – reslabbed as NGC MS64 and sold for small loss

1883 Liberty Nickel w/ Cents PCGS MS65 – reslabbed as NGC MS66!!! Traded this one for a substantial profit

1931-S Buffalo Nickel NGC MS65 – reslabbed as NGC MS65 and sold for about what I paid

1891-S Seated Dime NGC MS62 – reslabbed as NGC MS62 and sold for small loss

1928-D Standing Liberty Quarter NGC MS62 – reslabbed as NGC MS62 and sold for small loss

1831 Bust Half Dollar NGC AU58 – reslabbed as NGC AU55 and still haven’t sold it, will likely take a small loss

1892 Barber Half Dollar PCGS MS62 – reslabbed as PCGS MS62 and sold for small gain

1916 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS MS62 – reslabbed as NGC MS62 and sold for about what I paid

1918 Lincoln Half Dollar PCGS MS64 – reslabbed as NGC MS64 and sold for small loss

1878 8TF Morgan Dollar PCGS MS63 – reslabbed as NGC MS64 and sold for decent profit

1927 Peace Dollar NGC MS63 – reslabbed as NGC MS64 and sold for decent profit

1854 Gold Dollar NGC MS61 – reslabbed as PCGS AU58 and sold for small loss

1909 $2.5 Indian NGC AU58 – reslabbed as PCGS AU55 and in my 1909 set

1909 $5 Indian NGC AU58 – reslabbed as PCGS AU50 and in my 1909 set

1898 $10 Liberty PCGS MS62 – reslabbed as PCGS Genuine w/ Damage and sold for small loss

1909 $10 Indian NGC MS61 – reslabbed as PCGS MS60 and in my 1909 set

1909 $20 St. Gaudens NGC AU58 – reslabbed as PCGS AU55 and in my 1909 set


Still in Dansco 7070 Album:

1909 VDB Lincoln Cent NGC MS64RD
1943-S Lincoln Cent PCGS MS66
1980-S Lincoln Cent Proof
1980-S Jefferson Nickel Proof
1945-S Jefferson Nickel PCGS MS66
1957 Roosevelt Dime Proof
1996-W Roosevelt Dime PCGS MS66FB
1956 Washington Quarter Proof
1980-S Washington Quarter Proof
1957 Franklin Half Dollar Proof
1964 Kennedy Half Dollar Proof
1980-S Kennedy Half Dollar Proof
1992-S Columbian Half Dollar Proof
1971-S Ike Dollar Silver Proof
1976-S Silver Bicentennial Proof Set
1980-S Susan B. Anthony Dollar Proof
2003-S Sacagawea Dollar Proof
2003-S Illinois State Quarter Silver Proof
1992 Columbus Dollar Proof
2000 Silver Eagle Proof


Sitting in 2x2 holders:

1892 Barber Dime PCGS MS64
1916 Mercury Dime PCGS MS66FB
1892 Columbian Half Dollar NGC MS64

I also donated the extra slab insert pages that I made for the set to coin charity auction where they received several bids and were sold for around $20 which all went to charity.


Conclusion

Overall, I think I learned my lesson and I do foresee the need to crack coins out of slabs ever again. The grading companies are just too inconsistent and the grading fees and shipping expenses make shooting for upgrades cost prohibitive. I have learned to appreciate my coins in their slabs and have had a great time listing my coins on the set registries. In all, I did lose some money buying the slabbed coins, cracking them out then resubmitting them, but the gains from a couple of the sales and upgrades helped minimize the sting of the losses and downgrades. I was very lucky in that or the pain of the experience could have been much much worse.

The best thing that came from attempting the 7070 U.S. type set was that I was exposed to several series of coins that I’ve never owned and learned to love certain types like the Indian Gold and the Barber Type. That, combined with my interest in Indian Cents and Lincoln Cents led me to my current 1909 Mint Set which I have almost completed.

I hope it has been worthwhile to share my thoughts here (in the hope that perhaps some others new to coin collecting or just getting back into it will take my experience into consideration when they start out and resist the urge to crack out higher graded coins until you really know what you’re doing).

Anyone else out there have similar stories of “cracker’s remorse?” If so, how did you handle it?

 

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What an interesting post. Thanks for sharing your story.

I once envisioned building a 7070, but quickly realized that I will never have the money to do one. I also began collecting with the attitude - who needs slabs - but quickly learned about the risk of going raw if one collects type (very challenging to learn each type before purchase w/o the benefit of professional certification).

Anyway, I've never cracked out a piece. Too worried about doing it poorly and giving up the added value of independent certification if resold.

 

Thanks for a very frank posting about something that I have heard so much about, cracking coins out of slabs. And also the remarks about filling a dansco 7070 album are helpful, in that since I am still flounderring about for some collecting focus and I have considered a us type set, I now know that in filling a dansco 7070 you must take the parameters of the holder into account.

I wonder if you had some customized dansco that would accomodate slabs if you then would not have had to remove the coins from their slabs and therefore would not have had the losses, or if in the long term view you feel that the experience has made up for any losses?

 

Very good post. It makes me think twice about cracking out any of my major tpg coins. I hope this helps others.

 

I did the exact same thing with a 7070 album. It looked really cool but over time I understand it was a mistake. It cost me well over a $1000 in fees to get the best coins back in good holders. Made the same mistake building a complete MS Lincoln set in a Dansco. Paid even more in grading fees and many lost the red. I won't be cracking many slabs in the future.

 

Great post illini, a well written history of growth in collecting. New collectors can learn a lot from your experiences, and save themselves some pain and expense. Well done.

 

I really enjoyed this write up. :thumb: I've heard quite a bit lately about adventures in cracking slabs and re-submitting. That isn't a game I'd want to be playing now. It seems like ever since NGC introduced their 'Genuine' slabs for problem coins, they definitely have not been afraid to use them.

That was really interesting to see how the grades went. Those Indian gold coins took a beating! AU-58 down to AU-50 is hard to believe. It makes me wonder if they have as firm a grasp on grading those as people think.

Thanks for taking the time. Great write up.

 

I enjoyed reading your post very much ,thanks for taking the time to let us know the new info on your 7070 set.

 

Great write up! From looking at the gold only, I noticed most of them were in NGC slabs. Then you cracked them out and sent them to PCGS. It seems to confirm to me that PCGS seems ALOT stricter than NGC for gold in general...that one that was AU58 to AU50...ouch

 

Enjoyed reading your post Illini. Sometimes the best lessons in life are the hardest ones learned. I have done the same thing with many of my early commemorative half dollar set, although all mine are still sitting in the book. I have thought about resubmitting them, but I am afraid at the loss that I would take. Based on your history, I think it would be best to just leave them alone in the book and let old dogs lie. Thanks again.

 

It will be whole again.

Great story & thanks for sharing it.

My experience with the 7070 is 180-degrees from your experience. I assembled my 7070 with raw coins years ago. Each visit to a coin show in the 1970s & 1980s might provide one new coin for my type book. One day it was finished:smile and I went onto another project. Today, I have ended up pulling out a couple of those type coins to put them in slabs. This left me with a couple holes in the Dansco book! I still need to get another 1859 MS Indian Cent to make the book whole again. It will be whole again.

 

I almost did what you did, illini, in that when I decided to start a type set, I wanted an all toner set. In order to find the best pieces possible, I started buying a lot of slabbed coins. But, I couldn't bring myself to crack any out to put in my album, so I sort of changed strategies. I'm still building a toned type set, but now only of NGC graded coins. It's a humbling challenge to say the least, and it may very well take me another 20 years to complete it, but it's fun.
Guy~

 

It's always interesting to read about what rich folks spend their money on.
Your $30-$40,000 type set is equal to more than my yearly income before taxes.
I still love my coins though.

 

Thanks for the comments everyone. :thumb:

Never heard of customizing a Dansco to hold a slab, but I have started using Eagle Brand albums which is basically a 3 ring binder w/ a few hard plastic pages that hold 9 slabs each. Work for either PCGS or NGC coins and they are great for transporting and displaying slabs. Highly recommended.

Please remember that part of the problem with the gold especially is that AU incused Indian gold isn't that easy to grade in the first place. Combine that difficultly with me focusing more on the grades on the holder at the time instead of what the coin looked like, I wasn't surprised that I bought a couple of coins that were arguably overgraded. I don't think my sample size is enough to say once service is more strict than another. I've seen overgraded examples in both PCGS and NGC holders, and undergraded examples too. But from what I have seen, not only in this sample but in viewing probably hundreds of $2.5 and $5 gold, NGC seems to be a little more liberal in giving out the AU58 grade on these. Of course, there is also a possibility that I cased some additional rub to the coins while they were out of the holder and in my album, but I doubt that with the incused Indians especially as I was pretty careful

 

The only case of crackers remorse I have had is when the MS 69 1996 SAE grew milkspots in the Dansco. :bigeyes:

Otherwise, I really enjoy my Dansco.

 

Could have been much worse, could have cracked out an MS70

 

Very interesting story. I have to agree with you on cracking coins out of their slabs. I prefer to leave them where they are. I have a 7070 Dansco and think it's great. Most of my coins are circulated and tend to run in the XF40-45 range. I think the Registry Sets are lots of fun and look forward to finding and adding coins to mine. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

I've cracked a number of coins out of slabs, but I've never experienced "cracker's remorse" as you call it. First, I have never cracked-out an expensive high grade MS coin, and in most cases, I cracked them out because I felt they were under-graded. E.G. I cracked-out an AU58 1900 Liberty Nickel from a PCGS slab and resubmitted it; it came back MS62 (I thought it should have been a 64). The most valuable coin I cracked-out was an AG-3 1916-D Merc Dime from an ANACS holder; it currently resides in my Dansco album.

 

Why do the coins HAVE to be in the album, I mean what's wrong with completing the set in slabs and raw, mixed. As long as all are in the same room, it's a set. I'd have made small circles with 'see slab' on them, and put those in the album.

 

I think this is a great story worth sharing. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us!