Counts of Champagne

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by kaparthy, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. kaparthy

    kaparthy Well-Known Member

    Like everyone, I buy "anything interesting" and about eight or 10 years ago, I picked up a medieval coin of Henry, count of Champaign. To me, the coin, being from Troyes, represented the great medieval fairs. The fair at Troyes ran for weeks every summer and continued for 100 to 150 years. It gave us "troy" weight for silver and gold.

    The other aspect is that these medieval fairs gave us what Black's Law Dictionary identifies as "Pie Powder Courts." These are proceedings of first resort, established by and for merchants that are not government tribunals. They are what we would call arbitration. The goal is not to find who is "guilty" and then "punish" them, but to bring two parties together for their mutual benefit if possible.

    A couple of weeks ago, I picked this interest up again. I have been researching the medieval fairs and the history of Champagne and Troyes in particular. I also bought three more coins. I only need perhaps three more to complete the set. The coinages of Troyes and Champagne lasted only a few generations.

    When I get the coins scanned, I will put them up.
     
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  3. Ian

    Ian Coin Collector

    Ah, but was the coin of Henry I the Liberal? or Henry II the Young?

    Troyes mint had long since been active as a mint during the Merovingian period (476 -751 ad). That is, centuries prior to your coin coming on the scene.

    Troyes mint has produced coinage for such stellar personalities as :

    Pepin the Short (752-768 ad)
    Charlemagne (768-814)
    Charles the Bald (840-875)
    Louis II and III (877-882)
    Carloman (879-884)
    Charles the Simple (893-923)
    Herbert II (967-984)
    Herbert III (984-995)
    Thibaut I (1063-1089)
    Hugh (1093-1125)
    Thibaut II the Great (1125-1152)
    Henry I the Liberal (1152-1180) *not to be confused with Henry I of France (1031-1060)
    Henry II the Young (1180-1197)
    Thibaut III and IV (1197 -1253)

    You should be aware that Troyes was only one of about twenty other mints in Champagne that I can think of (such as Chalons sur Marne, Langres, Rethel, Chateau Thierry, Meaux, Sedan, Sens etc. etc.) which also produced coinage for some of those named above as well as ones who aren't (including Henry I of France). All very confusing..... :)

    Troyes became a royal mint at some point in the 14th C. having had a history of approx 800 - 1,000 years up to that point as a provincial mint.

    In other words, if you were collecting a type set of coins from Troyes, you would need a fair time (and wad of notes) to do it with. If you were collecting a type set from `Champagne' to include all the rulers and all the mint issues, you would need a very hefty wad indeed, a lot of goodwill, and a good few decades to do the necessary research and hunting.

    Bon chance mon brave! ;-)

    Ian
     
  4. kaparthy

    kaparthy Well-Known Member

    Sorry, my first was HUGUES (Hugh), not Henry. However, I did just acquire a Henry I (the Liberal) from Troyes.

    I learned that Troyes goes back to Merovingian times, perhaps earlier to Celto-Roman. I found medals from Troyes into the 1800s in the ANS database. However, fortunately, my focus is more narrow. I am concerned only with the Great Fairs. Thanks, again, for the list. I have identified Provins, Lagny sur Marne and Bar Sur Aube, as other (likely) mint sites. I am building my knowledge base ahead of my collection.

    Troyes/Champagne provides many lessons for our time, or for all time, perhaps. Tied to the cultural context of the "Pie Powder" courts I found deep religious tolerance. Rabbi Shlomo ben Isaac ("Rashi") was from Troyes. The crusades did both in. The kings made off with the young counts, taking them to the wars. Religious tolerance, of course, went up in flames. Philippe IV moved the fairs to Paris and I think the merchants actually ran the other way to Bruges, the new hotspot.

    So, I am looking at a narrow range of years, perhaps Hugues (the first count to live in Troyes) 1093-1125 to Thibault V who lost it all to King Philippe IV in 1284.

    I need to learn more about the Fairs. The Fairs, not the counts per se, are my interest here. Thibaut II knew which side his bread was buttered on. He and his son, Henry I the Liberal, built pavilions, "hotels" etc. and devised a calendar of Fairs around the county to ensure traffic all year.

    Murky bowcups,
    Michel le (XIXer siecle) Liberal
     
  5. Ian

    Ian Coin Collector

    I can't help with any data concerning the fairs, but here's a list of the known mints in the Champagne region from Merovingian through to 15th C.

    Assigny; Bar sur Aube; Chalons sur Marne; Chateau Porcien; Chateau Renaud; Chateau Thierry; Chateaubleau; Ivoix; Jouarre; Langres; Meaux; Meuvy; Mouzon; Perthes; Provins; Ramerupt; Rethel (a mint, but i'm dubious about it being part of the `Champagne collection'); Rheims; Sainte-Menehould; Sedan; Sens; Tonnere; and of course Troyes.

    Out of interest, you might want to note that Provins mint also produced coinage for Henry I and II.

    Ian

    PS I could never quite see you being known as anything `Liberal' . I predict that that is a nom de plume that just won't stick. ;-)

    a bientot
     
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