I've read a lot of the forum posts about cleaning coins and understand that it is pretty much a no-no. If a person were to scrub a circulated coin with dish soap and a tooth brush, would that constitute cleaning to anyone other than a purist? I tried it out on an old nickel that was pretty dirty. It got the gunk off but it didn't particularly brighten it. It looks better that it did, but only because it's clean. Could I list a coin on eBay, for instance, and not say it was "cleaned"? not that I would, of course, but does soap and water actually meet the interpretation and intent of defining something as "cleaned".
Even washing with soap and water can change the surface of a coin or leave residue. I also sell on eBay and would not list a coin that had been washed in soap and water without calling the coin "cleaned". Sorry, I know how frustrating it can be. Incidentally, cleaned coins do sell on eBay and will go for decent money if you are honest. I usually put "cleaned" right in the title bar. Honesty will go a long way.
Couldn't agree more. Any action given to a coin alters the surface. Whether this is a simple wiping, putting your fingers on the surfaces, dipping, scrubbing, or anything else you can imagine. Now all cleaning is not taboo. If you are removing harmful contaminates like PVC, it is better to clean the coin. One experiment is to take a few coins out of your pocket and clean them using different methods. This will help you to learn the effects on the coin. All forms of cleaning leave their own tell tale signs. A good learning experience. Just make sure to do this to ONLY pocket coins.
What about using a commercial jewelry steam cleaner? There are no solvents used, just superheated distilled water. I've cleaned a few 'test' coins and really could not see any degregation of the coins surface. The only thing gones was the oils, dirt, soot,etc. The tarnish and/or patina remained the same. Any feedback?
Welcome, Ben. Ah, you've raised an interesting point. To comment further, I would have to know your definition of "patina". It might be quite different than mine.
Thanks for the nice welcome Basically, I was using the word patina as a naturally ocurring film usually caused by age or environmental influences. I tested many coins with the jewelry steamer and it never seemed to remove things like this. The coins took on a slightly brighter luster, however this was totally dependent on it's original condition. No silk purse from a sow's ear!
This thread is making me a little nervous. There is no harm in asking advice, in fact it is smart to do lots of asking in advance. But…it seems that you are looking for a way to clean your coins without having to call it “cleaning”. My own opinion is that cleaning reduces the value. Now, if a coin is SO dirty that it’s value is already reduced, then cleaning my erase the decrease in value caused by the dirt but the reduction in value caused by the cleaning may or may not wipe out any value gained. In other words, unless the coin is a lost cause as is, cleaning should be avoided. Cleaning to make a coin acceptable is one thing, cleaning to make it more appealing is another. If I had a well-circulated coin that was so dark that you could not read anything, I might rub it between my fingers to lighten the details. That is normal “circulation” wear, though. And, if you do enough of it then you reduce the grade. But, the sorts of cleaning you mention do not mimic or represent circulation wear. Cleaning gives you a coin that has seen lots of circulation but has no dirt or debris in the nooks and crannies. It is not natural.
Actually, the "film", you seem to be refering to, is the "toning" of the coin. In other words, the coloration, taken on, by the metal, due to it's chemical reactions with the environment. This isn't likely to wash off with plain water. An original, uncleaned coin, will usually have a duller, softer, looking surface, that is usually instantly recognizable.
Don't clean mint unc coins, it shows But I was told a long time ago every circulated coin has been cleaned . A bartender wipeing beer off a nickle, when beer was a nickle. A nervious person rubbing one with his thumb, a bored child with an eraser a school, etc. How about wear, when the surface of a coin is flat, whats the cause(rubbing). Just don't clean unc's..
Correctamente Jody, The toning, film, patina, shading, etc. will not 'wash' off under the high pressure steam. All chemically acquired reactions remained, but the oils, soot, dirt, etc. were blown away. I had experimented with some beat Morgans. The 'look' never changed. There was just an absence of loose surficant matter. A dull coin remained dull. However, a newly minted one jumped out at you. BTW, this steamer is commonly used to clean precious gems and jewelry. Of course I'm not advocating cleaning coins. But the ones I did ,showed no 'damage' even under a 10x loupe.
Guess you're misreading my post, Ben. I said that toning is not likely to wash off with plain water. However, there is more to "originality" and "patina", than just toning. When you're coins became brighter, and seemed to jump out, due to the high pressure steam, that was due to alteration. Something natural was removed by mechanical means. I can assure you that I have looked at many coins that have sat, untouched, for years, and I have looked at many others that have been washed. They do indeed look different, and the difference is very noticable.
Of course plain water will not wash off patina or toning. The only coins that 'jumped' out were of very recent mintage and I did that prior to slabbing. And of course this was alteration by mechanical means. I guess just like leaving a coin in your pants and washing it. You ought to take a old junk crudded up coin to a jeweler and let him steam it a few times.
As I said, there's more to a coin's patination, than just the toning. Maybe this is too hard to understand, or perhaps I am not explaining it correctly. At any rate, I have done my best, and will say it one more time, just to be clear. Washing coins with water can be detected. No argument there. I'll have to take a pass on that suggestion.
I have noticed over the years that collectors are accepting mildly cleaned coins more then in previous years. I don't want them myself and have been fooled many times Greg
There is a tremendous market for lightly cleaned coins. The vast majority of 19th century coins have had some form of cleaning. This was common practice until this century. The problem lies in coins that have no luster left. Coins that have been polished or cleaned with household cleaners. These types of coins have real problems finding a home.
Resurrecting an old thread (yes...i searched). In the world of high-end auto detailing, high psi (50+) steamer cleaners with high-end microfiber towels rule for cleaning without chemicals & abrasion. Tonight I used a $200 italian 50psi home steamer (bought from Costco.com @ a steal of a close-out price of $45! search 'Saeco') loaded with deionized water to blast away a 1cm-round splotch of red paint marking the surface of a morgan I had. That paint was there at least 50 years. With repeated blasts that paint (and most of the coin's grime) is gone now. Benevolus had his point about cleaning without marring and I too cannot quite grasp 'the negatives' as they seem un-quantifiable: ie - If there are no microscopic marks, if there are no residual contaminants, if original tone is preserved...why is it bad? Yes, gunk in nooks and crannies is gone (and of course i get the whole 'originality in unrestored-ness') but it seems absurd that collectors 'toe the line' in regard to cleaning [don't clean!] yet dealers obviously cross that line in prepping coins for presentation & sale. Thoughts? Comments? Why are we worshipping the same God at different altars?
Thought I would throw this in as it was posted my myself over in the US Coin Forum and relates to almost the same line of questioning. i.e; bright white coins. I then added this post as a follow-up to a question: You may want to hop over to the other forum and get the full story.
I've been thinking about this for awhile then while looking on ebay the other day I saw a Morgan slabbed by NGC from some shipwreck! I thought while those *%$# if I send a coin in that they think was washed with plain water they body bag it yet they slab this coin WASHED for 100+ years in salt water and I'm sure CLEANED in some manner after recovery and no where on the slab does it say cleaned. How do the purest feel about these coins? I guess washing coins in natural ocean water is not cleaning!
