CAC or MAC certification is a fake

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by DANIEL HENRIQUEZ, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    I looked at many responses to the question of CAC and MAC stickers. Never heard of MAC and could really care less. As far as CAC they are a legit company run by a decent person. However, the idea of a CAC sticker wasn't to make the coin more valuable it was only confirming that CAC agrees with the grade. Unfortunately, this has backfired to a point. Dealers are now using the CAC sticker in marketing as being the only coins to buy. Thus, pushing the ask price up. Great marketing tool but somewhat miss leading. There a plenty of coins that don't have stickers on them that would qualify for a "sticker" but haven't been sent to CAC to look at. What's going to happen when John A. is no longer involved with CAC. He was involved with the founding of PCGS & NGC before moving onto starting CAC.

    The other thing to worry about is fake CAC stickers. I've seen them so I know they're out there. Sometimes on real slabs and sometimes on counterfeit slabs.
    You need to remember a sticker is only a sticker and a sticker is very easy to copy and make. Even if the sticker isn't quite right most people only see the green or gold color and not really take the time to look very close at the sticker. This is another reason not to pay more because of a sticker.

    It always seems to go back to the main concept in buying coins. Buy the coin and not the plastic and now not the sticker.
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Slabs are being faked, too, so don't pay more for a slabbed coin.

    Coins are being faked, too, so don't buy coins.

    Checks and money orders and cash are being faked, too, so don't sell coins, either.

    Just stay home and watch TV. You can be sure there's nothing fake there. :rolleyes:
  4. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    That is not factual.
  5. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    There's nothing new about these other stickers, the market just doesnt care about stickers aside from CAC.
    Kentucky and bear32211 like this.
  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Kentucky likes this.
  7. Stickers, plastic, what ever, buy the coin only. Oh, by the way, CAC is real.
  8. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . . Supporter

    My favorite part is having side conversations and pretending the troll isn't here . . . .

    charley likes this.
  9. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    That is factual, go back to sleep
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Correct me if I am wrong, a green bean (CAC) says the coin grading is accurate while a gold bean says it might go a grade higher. Many people complain about misgrading by the TPG's, but how many times have people complained about a coin with a green or gold bean?
    mrweaseluv and bear32211 like this.
  11. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Great, Green Bean, Gold Bean. I gotta do more studying.
    Kentucky likes this.
  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    A gold bean means that CAC would give the coin a green bean at least one grade higher. Less than 1% of stickered coins get the gold, and in the overwhelming majority of instances the coin is worth more with the gold than trying to upgrade it at PCGS or NGC
    Kentucky and bear32211 like this.
  13. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    brother, I am trying to get this, just lost me, the coin got a gold bean but you said it graded to a green, so why wasn't the green sticker put it it ?
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Green bean = "we think this coin is a good example of the grade on the slab."

    Gold bean = "we think this coin is a good example of the next grade higher than the grade on the slab."

    At least, that's my understanding. I have zero beans, at least on coin slabs.
    mrweaseluv and Kentucky like this.
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I'll try and use an example. Say a coin is a 64 Gold Sticker, that means that if it were upgraded to a 65 they would give it a Green Sticker as a 65. Basically the Gold is just saying that not only do they believe its undergraded but that its very undergraded. They wont give out golds on boarderline coins
  16. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I lost my beans in the great depression...
    MIGuy likes this.
  17. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Gee, I wish I had said that...
  18. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    Actually it's factual. CAC's primary purpose was to confirm the grade on the slab was meeting the grading standard for the coin. As we know when a coin has been slabbed at a given grade that within that grade there are three different levels. First, the coin barely makes the grade (low end). Second, the coin makes the grade (spot on). Third, the coin is high end for the grade. Green Bean would be given to either of the last two. Also, eye appeal would come into play more for CAC. So, basically, if a coin is solid for the grade and nice looking, it will get a Green Bean.
    MIGuy, ldhair and Kentucky like this.
  19. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    No, nope, nada. That was not the basis of the making of a market.

    As for the "..... As we know..." no, again. This was not at all a widely disseminated evaluation by collector or dealers, and was basically off the radar as an evaluation tool, and only became wide spread knowledge after the CAC entity discussed the
    business plan ca. 2007 and 2008. Yes, there was the bourse gossip, i.e. ' .... that is a 60, not a 62 or that is a 65 not a 63 or that is a slider 58...' blahblah. That is not at all the equal of the CAC method. Not even close.

    You also have the CAC green and gold evaluations incorrect.

    Eye appeal was a well known evaluation long before the advent of CAC.

    You could benefit from going to I am not being haughty. I am quite serious.

    The facts you state are not facts, but your interpretation.

    It may also be of interest to you to visit the CU U.S. Coins forum, and read and review as early as 2003 forward, for the advent of the issues you are opining on.

    You have missed the entire concepts for the birth of CAC, the 3 major being stopping coin doctors, making a market, and establishing for collectors an entity that could bring back trust to the numismatic community.

    CAC adds the benefit for collectors of buying pieces it awards a CAC green or gold evaluation, and does not charge the collector if the piece is not awarded.

    CAC is a 4PG, not a 3PG. Would you know who coined the phrase 4PG, and what it means?

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    Well said, however, they may not listen to you as they rebut my same argument and call me names without evidence to the contrary. Just because a person (regardless of numismatic stature) puts a sticker on a coin (on the outside of a slab in this case) does not raise the value of the coin at all. Again, if this person or anyone else is so confident of this so called, "better grade", why don't you resubmit the coin to be CRACKED open and regraded?

    Thank you Bear but, we are in the minority though.
  21. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Once again you failed to read and comprehend the comments of how CAC works. By continuing to spout erroneous information, you are doing nothing but ruining any credibility your argument may have.

    One more time.

    A CAC green sticker means that they feel the coin is in the middle to top of the specified grade. It DOES NOT indicate that the coin should grade higher. Resubmitting the coin would be a mistake because it should come back as the same grade.

    Take the time and understand the FACTS. You may not agree with CAC, and that's fine. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. However, if you're going to argue a contrarian opinion, at least make sure you understand what your saying. By repeating misinformation, all you do is make yourself look silly. Seriously, you need to get your facts in order before anybody will take you seriously.
    Kentucky, AdamL and charley like this.
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