CAC or MAC certification is a fake

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by DANIEL HENRIQUEZ, Jul 6, 2022.

Tags:
  1. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    Ok everyone, we have all seen coins with that sticker from either CAC or MAC "confirming" its grade by NGC or PCGS and in some cases giving a higher grade or designation such as "full steps" or in this case, "Cameo". Now I am sure everyone knows of and shops on Ebay for some coins and yes, some are crap, some are OK, some Sellers believe its worth more or embellish to its condition or otherwise yet, there are some that have begun stating the stickers from CAC or MAC are what makes the coin worth more due to what I stated prior such as giving a higher grade or designation such as "full steps" or in this case, "Cameo".

    I have attached a screen shot regarding an Ebay seller, collectibletrading, that is doing just that. He has a 1966 SMS Jefferson nickel graded MS66 by NGC as a "Cameo" and according to NGC has a value of $20 due to auction sales and population of 153 with 583 in Higher Grades. Of course he has the coin listed for $245 with that sticker from CAC in the top, right corner showing, "UCAM".

    Now, I have stated this prior and I will do so again, these third party sticker companies that are attempting to confirm or raise the grading of these coins are false, liars and pure garbage. First of all, you can't see or grade the coin properly if it is already encapsulated and sealed in a case nor can you re-grade or give a designation such as UCAM or Full Steps or otherwise on a sticker that anyone can just put on. In the event these Sellers or anyone else believes the technology of today is better than before and believes the Grade given prior could be improved, they should resubmit the coin to have the respective company such as NGC or PCGS to have regraded and the New Grade or designation (if any) can be confirmed, encapsulated and sealed inside the New case forever. Of course they will never do this because its not worth it and there belief may not be share or confirmed by NGC or PCGS.

    So, in short, beware of these stickers such as CAC and MAC as they are NOT valid and are completely false. Anyone can put a sticker on the outside of a coin capsule stating anything yet, it is NOT real or validated by anyone or any grading service. Please also be aware that "you can't see or grade the coin properly if it is already encapsulated and sealed in a case nor can you re-grade or give a designation such as UCAM or Full Steps" so, don't believe it or buy one for more than what the actual grades states is its value. I hope I have made clear to everyone these companies are false and putting a sticker on the outside of a capsule means NOTHING. These companies are taking your money and you are being ripped off. DO NOT BUY THESE COINS WITH CAC OR MAC STICKERS.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    CAC is a reputable company. I don't care much about their stickers, but they are legit and many people will pay more for them.

    CAC does not have stickers claiming added designations like Cameo, etc though.
    And that is not a CAC sticker.
     
    imrich likes this.
  4. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    macablege is the company, MAC is their trademark.

    Alan Hager is their numismatist and also the eBay seller you are referencing. Supposedly when the then president of the company was asked why hire him knowing his history, the reply was "he was the only one available". It does seem he is now president of the company.
     
  5. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It baffles me that despite being corrected numerous times over the years you still post major inaccuracies about CAC
     
    Kentucky and AdamL like this.
  7. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    Kind of easy to verify CAC stickered coins - https://www.caccoin.com/lookup/

    MAC is still around but pretty darn irrelevant lol, most often well seasoned collectors don't even know who they are in my experience. Also you can't lookup their stickered coin history - https://macablege.com/

    Here's a coin I've posted in various forums and I was asked by many, "Who's MAC?!" lol
    2014 Great Sand Dunes Colorado 25C MS68 Full.jpg
     
    AdamL likes this.
  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Wish I still had some images from that one eBay seller that just peppered his coins (mostly in 2x2s) with stickers. My favorite was "LESS THAN 2 PIZZAS".
     
    Scuba4fun777 likes this.
  9. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    You posted

    So, in short, beware of these stickers such as CAC and MAC as they are NOT valid and are completely false. ..............
    .......I hope I have made clear to everyone these companies are false and putting a sticker on the outside of a capsule means NOTHING. These companies are taking your money and you are being ripped off. DO NOT BUY THESE COINS WITH CAC OR MAC STICKERS
    .

    Start with saying that MAC has no credibility in the numismatic marketplace

    CAC, however, is a major player. It is run by John Albanese who was one of the founders of NGC. Like it or not, CAC stickered coins consistently bring more in auctions and sales. Do some research before posting this nonsense. If members follow your recommendation and avoid CAC, they will be leaving money on the table. Sounds like terrible advice to me.

    You may have an axe to grind with CAC. Who knows? But nothing you said regarding CAC makes any sense. Are you following auctions like Great Collections and Heritage? Are you going to shows and talking to dealers?

    Now, I have stated this prior and I will do so again, [emphasis mine] these third party sticker companies that are attempting to confirm or raise the grading of these coins are false, liars and pure garbage.

    Please do not state this again. It has no validity.

    BTW: I'm not a big fan of extra stickers, etc, but if you're going to post something, at least get the information right
     
    Dynoking, Magnus87, charley and 5 others like this.
  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    He was part of the start of PCGS too.

    This song and dance has happened numerous times before with this poster, some people just refuse to learn unfortunately
     
    imrich and Oldhoopster like this.
  11. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    I uploaded a pic showing a sticker stating, "Cameo" so, not sure how you say they don't have these. In addition, how can you state they are a "legit" company when they are putting stickers on the outside of a sealed capsule which they can't Grade a coin from the outside either? Regardless of whether people buy them or not, doesn't mean the sticker means anything as again, you can't Grade a coin with any efficiency without having access to the coin and NOT from outside a sealed capsule.

    I will state again for all those who seem to give legitimacy to these fake and false people: If the grade was not accurate and could be graded higher, why do these people NOT re-submit these coins to NGC or PCGS to be re-graded instead of putting a sticker on the outside of a capsule which anyone can do with NO reason and evidence? To those buying these coins, you will find yourself in a bind as these are not recognized by dealers or numismatists as being valid and are thus ONLY the Grade give by NGC or PCGS.
     
    Jim Dale likes this.
  12. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    Let me get your statement clear: Because CAC is, "run by John Albanese who was one of the founders of NGC" and he is also involved with PCGS, this makes the sticker on the outside of a Graded and sealed capsule valid? That is the most ludicrous and inflammatory statement ever.

    Please explain to me how this company can accurately re-grade the coin from outside of this sealed capsule which obscures nearly 25% of the integrity of the coin due to the plastic? Notwithstanding that, does being a part of NGC or PCGS in any capacity give him enough credibility to create and put stickers on any coin regardless of being able to see it accurately or not? I challenge him or you to do so as I can assure you this method is NOT accurate.
     
  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Are you interested in actually learning at any point or do you just want to keep posting incorrect information over and over? It would REALLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYY help to actually figure out what a CAC sticker is as a start even though its been explained to you multiple times before
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    wxcoin likes this.
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    It's not a CAC sticker.

    CAC is one company, and they label coins with one type of sticker -- an embossed, hologram-backed image of the word "CAC", in either green or gold.

    Any other company or person can make stickers bearing whatever word or design they like, and put them wherever they want. That has nothing to do with CAC, or their reputation.
     
    Magnus87, AdamL and Oldhoopster like this.
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It seems you still havent figured out the difference between CAC and other stickering companies and keep posting like they're all the same. Until you show a willingness to learn its a waste of everyones time to break it down for you in a detailed manner (which has been done before) other than to say just enough so that someone who doesnt know any better doesnt get mislead

    FYI a slab doesnt cover roughly 25% of a coin unless you're talking about something like a $1 or cal gold in an NGC slab. You can see through the PCGS ones for the most part, but even with the NGC white ones a coin has to be very small to approach that percentage
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    AdamL likes this.
  16. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    OK, just as I stated to the other person, how can you unequivocally say, "Kind of easy to verify CAC stickered coins - https://www.caccoin.com/lookup/" and that validates the sticker? Again, CAC is re-grading the coin without having the coin in hand and unencumbered and still within a sealed capsule so please, explain to me how they or anyone can accurately perform a grading or re-grading of any coin in this manner? the answer you should say is, "you can't". Therefore, no matter who you are and whatever status you may have reached acclaim or respect for in a specific area of expertise, you cannot accurately perform this function of grading or re-grading at all.

    To that end, just because it has a sticker on it from CAC or MAC doesn't mean the sticker is valid even if you go to a site that states it is. For those that believe this and hold it as gospel, you are wrong and validating a falsehood and paying more for a coin that's grade is ONLY what is under and inside the sealed capsule and nothing more.
     
  17. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    Pardon me but, I am posting facts. I have been a numismatist for over 40 years and I can unequivocally state that you cannot grade or re-grade a coin that is encapsulated in plastic unless you break it open and DO NOT perform the process through the plastic.

    Now, if you have some other evidence or information that can disprove this, please state it on this site for all to see. Your posting stating my posts are inaccurate is not founded or verifiable unless you can prove my statement is in fact, inaccurate.

    So, here is your chance, show us or give us all your evidence of how you can accurately perform the grading of a coin under a sealed, plastic capsule. I am sure many are interested in your response as I am.
     
  18. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Please stop lumping CAC and MAC together. It's like saying "if you find that a slab of meat has a USDA inspection stamp or mold spots on it, you should throw it away". The two are completely unrelated, except that they're spots of color on meat (my example) or stickers (your example).
    How's this for evidence: coins with CAC stickers consistently sell for higher prices than those without. If John Albanese weren't able to evaluate a coin's grade while it's encapsulated, that wouldn't be the case. Either that, or nobody can ever tell whether a coin in a slab is accurately graded -- which is an interesting suggestion, but probably not the one you're trying to make.
     
    Scuba4fun777 and wxcoin like this.
  19. DANIEL HENRIQUEZ

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    It appears you and a few other people on this site still believe and post that what I have been saying regarding CAC or MAC and they stickers on the outside of a sealed, plastic capsule is "inaccurate and completely wrong".

    Pardon me but, I am posting facts. I have been a numismatist for over 40 years and I can unequivocally state that you cannot grade or re-grade a coin that is encapsulated in plastic unless you break it open and DO NOT perform the process through the plastic.

    Now, if you have some other evidence or information that can disprove this, please state it on this site for all to see. Your posting stating my posts are inaccurate is not founded or verifiable unless you can prove my statement is in fact, inaccurate.

    So, here is your chance, show us or give us all your evidence of how you can accurately perform the grading of a coin under a sealed, plastic capsule. I am sure many are interested in your response as I am.
     
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No you are not and multiple people have already corrected you and this isnt the first time. I'm not going to waste my time leading a horse to water that apparently refuses to learn about something.

    If you're such an expert why cant you figure out the difference between CAC and MAC?
     
  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It would be the logical conclusion to the statements made, if CAC cant do it than neither can a dealer/collector/buyer/seller etc. That's obviously not true, but there's no way to argue that they could but CAC cant
     
    John Burgess likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page