,,..auction irregularities with Heritage....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by princeofwaldo, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    I just watched a lot I had bid on a couple weeks ago, come up for auction on Heritage Live!


    Opened at 350, there were no advances from 350, and it closed at 350. When the next lot was displayed, the "previous lot sold" also displayed 350.

    Yet, when I go to My Heritage it shows me as the winning bidder at my 375 maximum bid on a single bid. Anyone else ever have this happen to them?
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  3. swhuck

    swhuck Junior Member

    Best Answer
    Here is what happened, princeofwaldo:

    You put in your bid of $375 against the reserve of $350 through regular Internet bidding a long time before the floor session started.

    Another bidder put a proxy bid of $375 in through Heritage Live a few hours before the live session. Heritage Live proxy bids are kept completely separate from the rest of our systems until the lot comes up for live bidding.

    The lot opened at $350. Heritage Live attempted to place the proxy bid of $375, but this bid was not accepted because your bid for the same amount was already there. This raised the bid amount to $375 with you winning. Nobody else placed bids, so you won at $375.

    The number of bidders is updated with bids placed through Heritage Live only after the session is over, so that is why you saw one bidder when the lot closed and two bidders later.

    Our logs show that we sent and you should have received high bidder notifications for this lot through Heritage Live at both $350 and $375 and a winning bidder notification through for $375. I don't know why you would have seen the item show as having sold for $350, although in theory Internet lag on your end might cause it.

    BTW, although the session is live, it was conducted through the Internet only. There is no floor session and thus no video record.

    Please contact me personally at stewarth@ha.com if you have any questions.
    non_cents, green18, geekpryde and 7 others like this.
  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I think this happens when someone put in a prior bid of 350 via mail bid. If they got it in before you did, then theirs counts. At the Stacks auction in Chicago, I saw a few auctions where the auctioneer said, "Sold for $3500." "... I'm sorry we have a prior bid of 3500. Do I have 3600?"
  5. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Doesn't explain why their site says there was only one bid on the item. If there was a prior mail bid, it should have incremented the proxy bid days ago. My bid was put in about 2 weeks ago via internet bid, the 1 and only bid, and all of their reminder emails to me indicated the opening bid was 350 as well.
  6. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I could be wrong, as I am a rookie at the Heritage and Stacks live events... but my understanding is that mail bids are only entered into the system when the item comes up for live bidding. Again, I may be mistaken, so I'll leave it to someone else who knows more than me.
  7. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    There wasn't a mail bid, if there was, there would have been 2 bids, not 1. And in any case, Heritage scrolls through the mail/fax bids as the lot opens for live bidding. Nothing there, just my opening bid of 350. The lot closed, and then they helped themselves to my maximum bid. Really looks like fraud to me, -I mean how else do you explain it? I emailed them about it, will be interesting to see what kind of double-talk I get back from them.
  8. Ethan

    Ethan Collector of Kennedy's

    That will be interesting indeed. I have yet to win one from them.
  9. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, similar incidents have been discussed in past threads, but I believe there are firm employees active on this site who may (or may not) provide an explanation.


  10. NorthKorea

    NorthKorea Dealer Member is a made up title...

    From what I understand, that specific lot was in the actual floor auction. I don't know the bid increments, but I assume the following happened:

    You put in autobid at $375.
    Someone on floor bid $375. You won at earlier bid.

    If you search the Long Beach auction, it has a bunch of items that say $0 on the gallery page, but are already sold when you click through.
  11. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Nope, the floor activity (if there is any) is displayed, there are no hidden bids from any source that are not displayed on the Live Auction application. The most convincing thing that something isn't right is the next lot, when it said the previous lot closed at 350 (there is a little window in the item screen, upper right corner, that displays what the winning bid was on the previous lot).
  12. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Really. You call it fraud and double talk before you even here from them.
    That's not the way Heritage does things. Maybe a mistake. Maybe something else.
    geekpryde likes this.
  13. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    I very much expect to "here" from them. I presume they have a video record of the live session.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  14. brg5658

    brg5658 Supporter! Supporter

    Why don't you just call them tomorrow and ask before making accusations? I have never had any problems with Heritage, and they are always extremely helpful in answering questions if you give them a call.

    Or...alternatively, you can lose sleep over it tonight and grumble a bit more here on the internet...that always works too. ;) hahaha
    green18 and geekpryde like this.
  15. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I respectfully disagree with your assertion that he stated there was fraud, but rather he stated without an explanation from Heritage "it looks like fraud to me". I believe you'll find there's an appreciable difference.

    However, I've had similar experiences, I placed numerous calls and submitted many e-mails, without ever receiving any explanation. The response was threats over an extended period, followed by cancellation of privileges. I'm waiting for explanation and resolution also.

    I've recently cited what I believe an objective jury would find fraudulent, and also am awaiting an explanatory response to unrealized promises, after fulfilling stated and documented extensive requirements.

    May we be informed of your intimate knowledge, depth of Heritage procedures?

    Please elaborate on your intimate knowledge of what "maybe" might be!!
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  16. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Simple typos... god forbid!
    medoraman likes this.
  17. NorthKorea

    NorthKorea Dealer Member is a made up title...

    So, did you record the live auction session? I would assume that you could probably call an attorney who could then subpoena the data logs for the app.
  18. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

  19. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    The auction now shows there were 2 bidders.
  20. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    For $25? I don't think so.
  21. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Anyone else see it last night when I first made my post and it clearly indicated "1" bidder? I understand their explanation on the site about "internet lag", but for the love of God, 10 hours??
  22. brg5658

    brg5658 Supporter! Supporter

    Call Heritage and ask them what is going on. They have more "behind the scenes" information, and if you're that upset I'm sure they would be happy to remove your bid and send the coin to the other bidder. ;)
    geekpryde likes this.
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