Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Jun 24, 2015.
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Your last one is the most intrigueing because it is not listed in Tye. In addition i never could find a definite answer to what the character behind the horseman should be. It resembles a Devanagari "E". But that script did not exist yet at the time. The script on the coins is commonly described as Sharada. I could not find a truely matching character in the script.
I probably would not pay much extra if i would encounter a Tye#1 type. I have come to the conviction that Tye#1 actually may not exist. Mr Tye made the distinction between type#1 and 2 partly based on the assumption that the text in front of the horseman in type 1 was cursive Bactrian. The text on the type 2 was supposed to be degraded Brahmi. Likely however, the text in the type 2 also is cursive Bactrian, and written in a more correct form than the text on type 1. So type 1 may just be a bit degraded variant of type 2.
If the type was issued for 400 years and rulers changed every 5-10 years on average, there could be hundreds of variations we have never suspected if they were linked to the rulers. If they were made different by issuing magistrates, there could be several times that number. We know so little.
I bought a handful recently myself, because of their importance as early US colonial coinage. I don't have the references to research them, however.
These are some kind of mintmark undoubtedly. The only systematic association i noticed is that in Tye#3,4 and 7 these marks (if present) are always located between the front and back legs of the horse. In Tye#6 and also in Khudarayakah, Tye#22 the symbol is between the front legs of the horse.
John, I've got a major LUST issue with 4 of those already! But, really, don't your eyes spin just a little trying to see them? How many have the 1641 counter stamp?
Yes, that was our money also back in days. When the US dropped the legal use of them, think how many of our early coins got made of that copper. Another restamp!
@dougsmit. I am reviving this thread after it helped me to confirm the identity of this rediscovered coin in my collection, a Tye 23 the same as the OP coin - previously "unidentified AR jital". Along with this post, your informative page on this family of coins, and this type catalogue from Robert Tye were useful in decoding.
Kabul Shahi Kings, Khudrayaka, 850-875 AD
Obv: Brama Bull Nandi recumbent left, Tamga on Hindquarters
Rev: Horseman riding right, holding lance, two Brahmi aksharas above
Ref: Tye 23
Notes: An ashkara is a minimal articulatory unit for Indic languages. The silver jital was introduced ~750 AD. The Shahi’s were a wealthy Hindu dynasty that ruled in parts of what is today Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I was wondering if you might share some of your coin knowledge with me regarding a coin I shot recently as part of a collection The collection contained no information about the individual coins. I've seen coins similar to it on your page and postings here on CoinTalk. You seem to be the person everyone quotes or refers to. I was hoping you could tell me something about it, for starters, which is obverse and reverse?
@Denis Richard, I think you have this coin (#15 from Jitals by R. Tye) there is one on Doug's page here.
While I claim no expertise in these coins, from the few that I have seen, yours seems to be a surprisingly nice coin.
Afghanistan, Ohind, Shahis, AR Jital or Drachm, Samanta Deva, 10th Century AD, 3.3g, 69% silver
Obv: Horseman with Banner
Rev: Seated Bull with Hump
Note: a silver coin minted in the Kabul-Ohind region of modern Pakistan and Afghanistan in the tenth century AD, called a "bull and horseman" drachm or jital of the Shahis or Hindu Shahiyas of Kabul and Ohind. Samanta Deva does not appear to be a personal name and translates to a title of "feudatory chief".
HUNS Nezak Huns - Spalapati Deva AR Jital 750-850 CE Horseman-Bull Tye 5
Islamic Ghorids of Ghazna AE Jital Muhammad Sam Mu'izz al-Din AH 567-602 - AD 1171-1206
This is a mistake on their part. My pages served their purpose when the Internet was young and there was little material on ancient coins. I stated clearly on the index page that they were amateur efforts until people who should be writing such pages came along and made them obsolete.
"This page is very much a 'fast food' or 'pop culture' approach to the subject of ancient numismatics. I am an amateur collector and offer no guarantee of completeness or accuracy on any material on this site. I recommend that you research your questions rather than accepting blindly anything posted here. I also recommend you apply this same degree of care in using any other source material online or in hard copy. This site was intended to expose new collectors to an enjoyable hobby. No claim is made to serious scholarship. Serious numismatists are also welcomed here while they await publication of more proper and scholarly coverage of this material."
Those days are gone. I have been considering asking that my web pages be taken down completely since the errors I have discovered bother me and I have lost access to correct them. I am a big supporter of the concept 'First, do no harm' and never foresaw my amateur pages being harmful to my hobby. I do wish there were someone who would like to take over their maintenance (assuming they could gain access to them and had the computer skills I lack).
One of the first times i diagree with you. I have been looking through a lot of old literature on the subject recently. Lots of errors there also. Still, studying how knowledge grew, was shared and changed over time is indispensable when trying to gain a current in-depth insight. In this respect your webpages have become part of the historic knowledgebase which will never become obsolete i believe.
I too feel this is a point worth challenging...
Thank you very much. This drawing looks just like the coin. I can narrow my search for additional information about it. Thanks again. For the record, contrary to Doug's own opinion, it appears many people, including me, believes he has an extensive amount of knowledge about this topic. I see his name referenced more places a than anyone else. Granted, I'm new to numismatics by comparison, but Doug, you cover a lot of ground. Thank you for it.
Separate names with a comma.