ANACS vs. NGC - Cleaned?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by kanga, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Because I do Registry Sets on NGC I've been doing some crossovers to NGC.
    I sent a coin to them in an ANACS holder. No problems noted on the holder.
    NGC did not do the crossover because they deemed it "cleaned".

    What's the likely response from ANACS if I send it back to them?
    I was not the original submitter.
    I paid $190 for the coin. The greysheet has it valued for about $150.
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 Senior Member

    What is the coin and can we see pictures? If its an old white slab, ANACS will likely not do anything. If its a new ANACS slab - don't buy new ANACS slabs because as you have just found out, they have fallen way off and are now considered a third world grader.
  4. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    It's one of the newer slabs, curved top and bottom, angled top and blue label.
    But not the newest "mustard" label.

    And I'm not even going to go into the one that NGC thought was overgraded.
    Since there is no universal grading standard and each grader is different (read this to mean there's a LOT of subjectivity in grading), it would be a losing proposition to contest it.
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 Senior Member

    Honestly, your best bet is to probably tell NGC to cross it into one of their new purple problem holders with a details grade. It still can go into your registry sets, at 50% of the regular value.
  6. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    I've worked hard (but apparently not hard enough) to buy only coins with original surfaces.
    If I detect a problem, the problem coin gets replaced. I sell it and eat the loss.
    So, for me, your suggestion is not an option.

    My 1915-S Lincoln has developed a couple small but easily seen corrosion spots, one at the "B" in "LIBERTY" and the other at the "9" in the date.
    This coin is at least AU (or was) but is now on the "To Be Replaced" list.

    This is just my personal preference.
  7. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    Well IMO ANACS does a very good job grading coins. Then again, so does NGC. If ANACS feels the coin hasn't been cleaned, maybe they're right. Does the coin look cleaned to you?
  8. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Tough call.
    I don't think it's been abrasively cleaned,
    Lots of hairlines but they appear to be random.

    But it's a nice silver color with peripheral toning.
    For an 1832 coin this could be a bit much.
    So dipping (not particularly long ago) and retoning could be the fly in the ointment.

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Are you saying that about the new ANACS or the old ANACS ?
  10. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    Not so much with new ANACS. The old ANACS company was very good...the newer one isn't so much. I would tend to go with what NGC said if there is any doubt in your mind. Sell the coin and buy another if problem coins are unacceptable in your set.
  11. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    I was referring to ANACS in general. I personally haven't noticed much difference in grading quality between the older and newer slabs. Although, I know many people say ANACS is not as good as they used to be.
  12. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    You beat me to it. I liked old ANACS.
  13. chip

    chip Novice collector

    These question are peripheral to the thread but the discussion raised some questions in my mind.

    was there a sharp date when anacs standards became looser? I mean did they slip into shoddiness or did the change come suddenly?

    How could a novice tell the difference between an old anacs slab and a new one, an old one meaning one that was slabbed before their grading standards started generally slipping?

    The reason I am asking is because I have not seen much difference in prices between raw and anacs slabbed, not that I am considering buying slabs, but I would rather if I buy a coin that is slabbed that it has not been cleaned or dipped.
  14. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, the company was sold and was then when the standards took a drop. Many of the graders from ICG became the graders at the new ANACS. It happened in late December '07/early January of 2008.

    Here is the story:
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Happened literally overnight. The old ANACS had some of the toughest grading standards there were on some coins.

    Easy, the slab itself. The old ones were very small with solid white inserts like NGC uses. The new ones are roughly the same size as other slabs and clear like PCGS and ICG uses.

    The difference is day and night. Grading standards at the new ANACS are much more lax than they used to be.

    Good luck with that. It is estimated that fully 80% or more of all older coins have been dipped at some point. If a silver coin is blast white - it's been dipped.

    If you want undipped coins, then you have to buy coins that have what they call original skin. This means that you only buy toned coins. And even some of them will be coins that were dipped and have re-toned afterwards.
  16. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Supporter! Supporter

    The slabs were changed. The far left is the old ANACS slab which is when they had the strict grading standards. Those are the good slabs. The other 2 slabs are designs they have used since the move when they had their looser grading standards. Just so you know, the blue labeled slab in the middle is clear in color...not white (the photo was taken with a white background).
  17. SilverSurfer

    SilverSurfer Whack Job

    Sure, there is a lot of subjectivity in grading.......especially from one grading service to another. I think the real problem arises when you look up the value of a PCGS coin graded MS63 and try to pass off another grading services MS63 for the same value. If a company has stricter and tougher grading requirements, you can bet a MS63 coin from that company would be worth more than a MS63 coin from one not so reputable.
  18. Tonybaloney

    Tonybaloney New Member

    I am so glad I ran across this thread as I was getting ready to send a roll of silver dollars to Anacs and had been to their new office a few months ago and never once did they mention they were under new ownership, but had just moved from their old location. I had not known till this moment that they have hired ICG graders. No wonder the quality went down in grading through them. Over the years I have heard more bad than good about ICG and swore I would never use them. I think my roll will just go to pscgs. Be done with it and pony up the extra cost.
  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Welcome to CT Tony.

    The change of ownership took place a decade ago. I don't know how long you have been collecting coins but I'll suggest you look on the ICG and ANACS web sites to see the biographies of the folks who grade coins at each service. I believe it may be an eye opener for you and show the absurdity of your post. The top, long-time graders at each of these services are the equal of any professional grader working at PCGS and NGC (except perhaps for David Hall and Mark Salzberg).

    Furthermore, grading standards have loosened over the years and Professional graders must reflect the dictates of the coin market.

    If the condition of your coins warrant it, they will possibly be worth more in a PCGS slab. Good Luck.
    JAY-AR likes this.
  20. mac266

    mac266 Well-Known Member

    For what it's worth, if you join the American Numismatic Association, you automatically get submission privileges to NGC. That alone is worth the cost to me.
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