Ain't Nothin' but a Segestan Hound Dog

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by zumbly, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    From the time I started collecting Greek coins, an issue of Segesta featuring one of their fine hounds has been on my want list. A couple of months ago, I managed to score one that did not burn too big a hole in my pocket, and it finally arrived last week. It's pretty worn, but not unappealingly so, and well-centered enough on the obverse to have just about the entire hound on the flan. This li'l doggie is a welcome addition to my coin pound :) ... please do feel free to show your own dog coins.

    Sicily Segesta - Didrachm.jpg
    SICILY, Segesta
    AR Didrachm. 8.16g, 21.9mm. SICILY, Segesta, circa 440/35-420/16 BC. Hurter, Didrachmenprägung 129 (V39/R73); HGC 2, 1135. O: Hound standing left. R: Head of Segesta right, within linear circle.

    The dogs on these Segestan issues are thought to be Cirneco dell'Etna, a breed of small Sicilian hound that were found throughout the island from ancient times. They were proficient rabbit-hunters and were especially plentiful around the area of Mount Etna. Claudius Aelian, in his De Natura Animalium, wrote that they were sacred to Adranos, the fire god that lived below the volcanic Etna, and that a thousand of the dogs guarded his temple precinct. They were said to greet in friendly fashion visitors to the temple and grove who were honest, but would sense if a person was a criminal, and would then attack them viciously.

    Sicily Segesta - Cirneco dellEtna.jpg
    A Cirneco dell'Etna

    While Segesta wasn't the only city in Sicily to strike coins with the image of the Cirneco, they used the type most prominently as the dog bore a link to their foundation myth. According to one tradition, a Trojan princess named Egesta (or Segesta) was sent to Sicily by her father to ensure her safety from a monster that was terrorizing the land. There, the river-god Krimisos fell in love with her and slept with her, after taking the form of a hound... or a bear :eek:. So, yes, on the face of it perhaps not such a great move on the part of dad, but from the union of river-god and princess was born Egestes, the hero who would go on to found the city of Segesta. If the female head that we see on Segestan coinage is Egesta, the mother of the city founder, perhaps then the hound is no ordinary dog but Krimisos himself in canine form.
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Cool coin, Z. Never seen the type before.
     
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  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Love the hound and the coin. Great story as well.
     
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  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Ooooh, jealous :sour:. A type chronically on the wishlist... even more so now that I have some additional color commentary on the issue :). Thanks for the writeup. Nice coin!
     
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  6. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    segesta.jpg
    Sicily, Segesta, Circa 412/0-405/0 BC, 0.55g chipped 12mm litra
    Head of the nymph Segesta facing slightly left
    Σ-EΓE; Dog standing left, shell before, gorgon above dog
    Sear GCV #903
    ex-H. C. Lindgren, sale 77, November 2002, lot 3

    This coin would be in high grade if it wasn't so corroded that half the design fell off!

    There is currently an example of this die pair on VCoins that looks very pleasing. Four figure price.
     
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  7. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Very pleasing, indeed! @TIF should buy that one ;).
     
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Heh, I wish. It's a fantastic example (crisp, and so much detail for a tiny canvas!) but I'd be more than happy with a comfortably worn didrachm like yours.
     
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  9. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    Here is a coin I need advice on. The figure on the reverse was described by the cataloger as a panther but I suspect it is the demon dog Cerberus.

    51199.l.jpg
    ASIA MINOR. Uncertain. Diobol (5th century BC). 11 mm. 1.08 g.
    Obv: Forepart of winged goat right.
    Rev: Facing head of panther (or Cerberus?) within incuse circle with mane of snakes.

    The mane of snakes is very unusual on Greek art! We see snakes like this on Medusa and other gorgons, but almost never on animals. The only animal I have ever seen depicted with a mane of snakes is Cerebus, for example see http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M12.1.html

    Usually Cerebus is depicted with three heads but sometimes with only one. Cerebus also sometimes has whiskers like this example.

    Numismatik Naumann, Auction 46, September 2016, lot 182
    cf. Classical Numismatic Group, e-Auction 334, September 2013, lot 157

    Dear reader, do you see Cerebus or an unknown snake-maned panther when you look at the reverse?
     
  10. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    With that short, rounded muzzle I'm going to have to go with panther or lion. But what a wonderful snake-tressed mane!
     
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I vote Lion. Snakes are awesome on the portrait.
     
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  12. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Cool posts!! I hadn't run across the OP type until now---- I love the devices and the 'commentary' !!

    I also vote lion, but that might be because my last purchase keeps flashing in my mind ;)
     
  13. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Nice OP dog, but I am a cat person. :cat:

    That seems like good reasoning, @Ed Snible, and the "panther" does seem (barely) interpretable as a dog. But I think the other example on acsearch (sans snakes) just can't be canine. So my vote is for a snake-maned panther.

    https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=318096

    My favourite hound:

    Screen Shot 2017-06-04 at 10.30.36 AM.png
     
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  14. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  15. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    No dogs in my collection, alas. But here's a wolf :)

    urbsroma2.jpg
     
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  16. icerain

    icerain Mastir spellyr

    Here is my dog on the reverse

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Z-Bro => I've mentioned in a previous thread that at one point I was the max-bidder on that cool hound coin (but congrats => I'm glad that you ended-up winning the dog-fight!!)

    Great coin (I'm totally jealous)


    :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
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  18. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Wow, I was unfamiliar with this type (in both cases; coin and dog species). Neat!
     
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  19. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Thanks! You would've made a great coin-custodian for this puppy, but I have to admit I'm glad you dropped out of the race this time :).
     
  20. Meander

    Meander Well-Known Member

    Great coin zumbly! Here is mine. Segesta1.jpg
     
  21. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Gorgeous! I love this type with the wheat ears in the background; yours is an outstanding example. Thanks for sharing it!
     
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