A very difficult quiz for the weekend. What caused this characteristic?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, Jul 23, 2021.

?

What caused this mark?

  1. Strike thru.

  2. Planchet flaw.

  3. Scratch.

  4. Die Crack.

  5. Lamination.

  6. Damage.

  7. None of the above.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    You'll post pictures of the ship?
     
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  3. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I voted it is a scratch but the new image looks like a fiber/lint just laying on the coin.
     
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  4. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

    A bi-level die crack
     
    Insider likes this.
  5. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat dave700x -1883 O nut

    Another spammer broke through the wall.....:eek:
     
  6. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Something from nothing leaves nothing. Full pictures would gather a better response. Thanks
     
    Cliff Reuter likes this.
  7. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I thought scratch, and that is how I voted. After the second picture, I am going with die crack.
     
  8. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    Looks like a die scratch/gouge to me. Just does not seem to be as sharp as I would expect if it were a die crack. I would also expect that somewhere out there are many more that look like this.
     
    Cliff Reuter likes this.
  9. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I’ll post some photos when I get back next week. They’re all on my camera and the bad WiFi I’ve had at hotels won’t let my phone connect to my camera.

    I’ve seen a ton of cool things I’m gonna share.
     
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  10. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    My first thought based on the light was lamination.

    I think it's too smooth (not jagged) to be a die crack.

    Then I thought PMD, but because of the area highlighted below, I think that can be ruled out. There is a crater that looks like a hit, but the line goes through the assumed crater, pretty much uninterrupted.

    And that leads me back to a lamination, or a flawed planchet, so that's what I'm going to guess. I'm probably wrong.
    IMG_5896.JPG
     
  11. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    That's what I thought I was seeing in the photo -- a bright line indicating a raised edge, but no dark line indicating a corresponding drop on the other side. This would lead me to suspect a broken die, but I'd expect to see more signs around the break, and I'd expect it to go edge to edge. So... lamination, or similar planchet flaw, that raised after striking?
     
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  12. Rhody

    Rhody Member

    The irregularity looks to be a continuous raised area going up at a sharp angle to the right, across to the left, and then down in a less dramatic fashion. Taken overall, it appears to be a smear of metal on the original planchette, and with the light coming from the right, raised above the body.
     
  13. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    This is what I see a thread/fiber laying on the coin.
     
  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Dear Mr.Q and anyone else...

    :rolleyes: Please try to incorporate this THIS BEST ANSWER into your thinking from now on:

    Full pictures of a coin are NEVER NECESSARY to be able to see most microscopic thru tiny to small characteristic features on a coin that do not involve its edge, rim, or opposite side - EVER! So please quit asking for them because it shows that you may not be paying attention.

    New Info. The surface is bi-level and the mark DOES NOT break the coin's original surface. I don't recall ever seeing this characteristic in the middle of a genuine coin before.

    @JCro57 With the description above, I'm 100% sure an error expert of your caliber knows the answer. Please explain what this is and how it happens for the members as I'm going to be away from a computer until tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

    Thanks in advance for taking over for me in this thread!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  15. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    Lamination over a fiber?
    I like these puzzles even if my success rate is really low.
     
  16. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Some of my thoughts on images.
    If you are buying, selling, teaching or asking for opinions, out of focus microscopic images just seem to create problems. There are scopes out there that get past this. Just a bit of study and practice.
    There are good reasons that folks ask for full size quality images of the coin. Many scopes have a hard time taking full size images that are still in good focus. It's all about the camera and the time a person puts into learning how to use it. Folks on a PC or even phones can enlarge the image and have a better understanding of the coin but it really needs to be in focus when it gets posted.
    I'm a big fan of using a DSLR with a macro lens. Not hard to learn and they just get the job none.
     
    ksparrow, Cliff Reuter and CoinCorgi like this.
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    For those who didn't read my post above...I :troll: will never post an image of a full coin, its rim, edge, opposite side or the container it came in when in my opinion it is unnecessary and adds nothing but :vomit: to my post.

     
  18. Cliff Reuter

    Cliff Reuter Active Member

    I've enjoyed many of your threads and replies, but ummm ... how are others supposed to learn from your posts from limited and dark images? It's only taken 35 replies plus your original post to come up with an answer of .... well we haven't yet. Maybe that is the purpose of this exercise. To get people to rely on vocabulary rather than images?

    Physicsfan had a very nuanced and detailed description and I was seeing a lot of the same things. But IMHO I believe it to be a die crack based on the die state (Mid to LDS) and the irregular shape of the meandering raised line. (The light source seemed to be about K3.) I say meandering because it is very faint but looks to go up to the top of the dome and south into the letters as well. And the brighter part of the line seems to be on the right side indicating it is a raised line.

    Forgive me if I haven't described what I'm seeing very well.
    (Are we allowed to use your image or should we use only our vocabulary to describe what we see?)
     
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  19. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Revisiting the new closeup image, I think this looks like the beginnings of a split die where the split began in the interior (like an interior cud does), rather than beginning at or close to the rim. I have seen some split dies where material on opposite sides of the split appear to be at different elevations.

    Seems strange, I admit, but impossible?
     
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  20. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I'm hesitant to bring up the term Die Sinking into the conversation because it's usually limited to very early coin production before the roller presses. I don't even know if that's possible on modern coins.

    I'll just say it shares the appearance of coins where the die sinks prior to breaking. But the edge usually has no sharp line until a break occurs. It's more of a dull "bend" in the surface.
     
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  21. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    If it is a die break - there would be many existing struck examples - which doesn't seem to be the case - as no one here has yet identified and attributed it to a specific die. Makes me think it is a unique example of a single specific strike. I'll venture a guess of it being a strike through cloth with a retain thread.
     
    Stevearino likes this.
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