A new discovery of mine 1970 cent reverse doubled die

This is from a new roll of 1970 cents. I do believe this is a new discovery :bigeyes:a doubled die reverse. The only doubled dies that have been discovered are the obverse doubled dies and there are a couple of different varities of that date. I have about 22 of these :whistle:I do believe i have serveral varities of these . This is not a die gouge or die chips or Machine doubling or die deterioration doubling. I have posted two different varities of this doubled die . I showed the doubling on each seperate coin with black arrows indicating were the doubling is/


The images are rounded and clear the second coin shows doubling above the building and the corner as well with rounded images which i tried to show in the post which is very differcult for me to do. The first coin is another varieity with a bar above the buliding. I will be sending these two coins to John wexler to confirm my discovery of the new 1970 DDO doubled die.

I know for sure that this is a new discovery . I just want to share this with everybody and give your opinion on this new doubled die.


JC:smile

 

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Aw, I donno.

It could have agreed, except that the line that you are pointing to is at an angle, that seems illogical.

[hey I just broke 1,000 credits! I have to learn to shut up!
aside: Doug would agree with that!]

 

No you don't have to shut up you are very knowledgeable Treas, and i like your opinions, but it does'nt matter if there's a curved line it still can be a doubled die die cracks don't look like that die gouges don't hug the side of the buliding look at the second coin there's doubling on the corner as well as the above of the buliding.

Look at the 1970 obverse doubled dies were there are just lines above the 7 and in liberty a line to the left of the letter as well a variety a line above the 9 and the line left of the l in liberty appears to be curved check them out . There are also statehood quarters with just lines on them which are doubled dies and i think i say one line that was curvered

Thank you always for your input.

 

I need a clearer and closer shot to give a opinion.

Never mind. I clicked on the photo.

 

JC,

You might just be on to something! Good luck!


Frank

 

I'm interested in what you find out. :high5:

 

Very nice!!
JW is attributing this?

 

Great find! Hope attribution is next...

 

Hi,

I am not convinced. It was suggested that a more clear and close shot of each coin would be helpful.

It is highly unlikely that these would be doubled dies since the doubling would be more pronounced. In 1971, they were not using "single squeeze" technology so you wouldn't get the unusual areas of minor doubling in the way you would on newer cents.

The distance between the images would almost guarantee that there would be more doubling. It is likely a die gouge that is causing the lines on each coin.

Still, better pictures would help.

Thanks,
Bill

 

let us know what happens......

 

Do some research on the 1970 DDO's ,and see that there are little bars above the digits and many varietes in the 1970D as well and there not die gouges if you look at the second coin which you probably didn't examine enough there's doubling on the left side of the buliding as well ,and die gouges do not look like that and better pics are not needed to an experience person to see this.. I know for sure this is a new variety I've been doing this for 40 years and 99 percent of the time my conclusion is right.I will be posting some other varities to show that these are not die gouges soon.


I will be sending these in to confirm my discovery to Ken Potor or John wexler ,and you will be shocked by the outcome Bill, and i will let it be know on coin talk when i get the positive news back.

Here's a new pic I just want to show you Bill that this is not a die gouge I know what a die gouge looks like. Now look at the corner of the buliding on the third line the way the doubling is on the left side and rounded a die gouge does not exstend that way with a round image
Notice the third line in the pic which is the doubling so your wrong this is not a die gouge.

Jazzcoins Joe

 

Let's wait until John sees them.

I am quite familiar with all the coins that are DDOs from the 1970s. I have many of them here. It is apparent that you are going by pictures of the dates.

If you did some research on any of them, you would see that there is doubling elsewhere. Some have it on the UST of TRUST, some have it on the LI of Liberty.

On coins that "victims" of Pivoted Hub Doubling, There can be less doubling with it being mostly on one portion of the coin.

Two points. With pivoted hub doubling, the doubling is toward the rim of the coin and not the center. That makes your point about the cents you mentioned an UNpoint.

The next thing is that with hubbing cents prior to single squeeze technology, if a hub was that far off when it made an impression toward the center of the coin, other things would be equally doubled.

What you are pointing out as doubling at the sides of the building is machine doubling. It is not raised enough nor is the spread far enough for it to be equal to the detail you pointed out.

Wait to see what John says but I highly doubt that the coins will come back as doubled dies.

Also for others here that don't know....I am a researcher of doubled dies and have been for more than 20 years. The idea that I should be told that I don't have enough experience to identify a doubled die is really funny

Thanks,
Bill

 

This is no way Machine doubling or die detrioration doubling or die gouges believe me i know the difference I've been doing this long enough I pointed out the images are raised and rounded you can't tell by my pics.

I have been researching for years also so that does not make you any better then me to determine what I have. I have knowledge on all the different hub doubling all the classes as well. Now is that a joke?


I am very positive that this is a new variety. I have at least 22 of them i would say i have about four varities . This could be Tilted hub doubling class V111 but not quite sure yet.

I will be sending them out this week.

Thanks JC

 

Hi,

Here are two more different 1970 cents. Both have raised lines above the Memorial building. Neither are doubled dies. It took longer for me to take the photos than it did for me to find these in my collection.

This is a common spot for die damage, die deterioration, and machine doubling to take their effects. The fact that there are so many out there like this when they are examined closely, along with the fact that the extra lines are different indicate something far from die doubling.

Let me also say that I have examples of many doubled dies here as well as examples of coins that are not doubled dies just so I can educate people as to what they have.

These are common and they are not doubled dies.

Thanks,
Bill

 

That is your opinion Bill, the second coin i have posted to repeat myself has rounded images and not MD or DDD The images are clear with no indication of distortion.

I have examined at least seven new rolls of the 1970 coins and did not come across any like these except in one roll I have about 22 with less doubling which I personally think are different varities I have examined hundreds upon hundreds of 1970's and didn't come across any either.so there not common as you stated

Did you send any of your coins in to establish if these are doubled dies or not ,or you are just going on your own experiance which i feel you should get other professional opinions before coming up with your conclusions on these ? And I'm going on my coins that I posted not yours since they are different in there nature

I don't want to argue with you I just will send them in and we will go from there
Thanks Jazzcoins Joe have a good day Bill

 

Your entitled to think what you want to think. The evidence I presented speaks for itself.

 

The evidence you have posted is not convincing enough for me without doing more research on the specimens haste makes waste Bill
You didn't answer my question if you sent yours in to the experts like Ken Potor or John Wexler or me. :hail::hail::hail::hail:
Jazzcoins Joe

 

Joe,

I am not sure what you mean. I would never send a coin to you for an analysis. Also, folks like Ken and John already know that I know what I'm doing. I don't have to prove anything to you.

Thanks,
Bill
By the way it's Ken Potter not Potor

 

We are not talking about proving anything we are talking about other qualified opinions on the subject. I don't know how you could go on your opinion and saying for sure what it is without others to be sure.


Even great doctors look for other doctor opinions in there field to come up with a positive conclusion in what to do with the patient in some cases.

I really think I need an opinion on my coins to establish that they are doubled dies and to confirm it. I don't know were you are coming from yes i do i don't want to say it . Well i will send them to Ken potor.

Thanks Bill for you great opinion.
JC

 

Joe, I have to say I am along the same path as Frank. I have tried to imagine how this area could have been caused by a doubled die incident, and I can not. Please don't take any opposition to an emotional state, as it is an opinion. I have been wrong before and if I am this time, I will just be happy for you. You could post it on the Lincoincentresource.net forum, as most of the experts are members there also.

Jim