1885 P Morgan Reverse Die Clash of Liberty's Head

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by rhoggman, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    Looked at the VAMs for 1885 and could not come up with a match for the one I just received. This coin is unattributed NGC MS64 in an old holder.

    The reverse has a very obvious impression (outline) of Liberty's head.

    The lines are visible between the wreath and the Eagles wings on both sides. The line on the Eagles left side shows up as a V shape near the top of the wreath and to the left. On the Eagle's right side you can see the line that would be Liberty's forehead to upper nose. The line then disappears into the wreath, and then reappears to form the underneath of the nose, and the upper lip. You can also make out the crease that would be be between the upper and lower lip. The line that would be the chin is faint but visible between the top of the wreath and the Eagle's right wing. On the opposite side of the wing where the inner and outer feathers meet extending into the field you can see the neck line. I should also mention the the front of the eye is clashed into the reverse.

    If you are looking at the reverse right side up this is not so obvious to the naked eye; however if you turn the coin so that the eagle is upside down this die clash is very obvious.

    The only photos I have are DLRC scans and very hard to make all of this out with the scans. If you cannot make it out I'm sorry you will have to trust me that I am not making this up. I looked at the photo, and you can make out most of what I describe, but it is hard to see without looking at the actual coin first. I can see everything except the chin outline, and the neck outline.

    Is this so common a die clash that it is not listed or have I found something unique?
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. diocletian

    diocletian Senior Member

    I can see the clash clearly. Looks like it's a double die clash by the sideways V between the branch and the feather. Check for letter transfer. Particularly Vam 1f, 1g, 9a, and 9b. Cool coin.
     
  4. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    I cannot make out the n from "In God" on the obverse next to Liberty's neck, but I can make out the edge of the wing on the obverse. The edge of the wing extends sideways and downward from liberty's neck.
     
  5. diocletian

    diocletian Senior Member

  6. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    After more squinting into a loupe than I care to remember I believe this is a 9A. I got some help from the guys at VAMworld.
     
  7. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    Apparently this type of die clash is rather common. Too bad because it is much "neater" to look at than many of the rare varieties.

    I am still kind of stunned by the fact that they do not get a VAM number.
     
  8. diocletian

    diocletian Senior Member

  9. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    I'll have to look at your pics when I get home from work. It may be a common die clash, but I have never seen this on a Morgan before. I have seen the V shape that is transferred from the back of Liberty's head quite often, but I have never seen a profile/ outline of the front of Liberty's face.

    Nevertheless, this is educational, and cool to look at. I will be holding onto this coin until I kind find a better example of such a clash.
     
  10. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    Here is a graphic to make this easier... for anyone who was having trouble seeing this.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. tjenkins_1983

    tjenkins_1983 Numismaniac

    Does your Morgan have any die cracks? If so, I may have it's twin.
     
  12. rhoggman

    rhoggman New Member

    I remember seeing many die cracks; however, most of them were extremely hard to see with the naked eye. I can give you an update when I get back home.
     
  13. tjenkins_1983

    tjenkins_1983 Numismaniac

    See if you can find some. Let me know where. I'll try to get some pictures posted of mine.
     
  14. diocletian

    diocletian Senior Member

    Rhoggman,
    Your coin looks like it was struck shortly after the clash. Also, can you post a pic of the obverse? I would imagine some marks around the lips, neck, and where the cap meets the hair on Liberty.
     
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