1885 Morgan grading question

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Spark1951, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    PCGS Photograded at MS65. This is a VAM 1. It has extra cheek and neck scratches, and I'm wondering how much lower it would grade because of it. I took a whole point off to MS64 but I think it is serious enough to go to MS63.
    What say you compatriots?
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  3. YoloBagels

    YoloBagels Well-Known Member

    I would grade it as MS61, way too much chatter on the cheek and neck.
  4. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    I'm in the 62-62+range.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  5. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    I just noticed I used the wrong reverse...sorry...Spark
  6. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    210226172655484.jpg Here is the correct reverse...Spark
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  7. bradgator2

    bradgator2 Well-Known Member

  8. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I think a bit lower than 63. I would go 61, because of the cheek marks.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  9. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Yeah, even MS62 is a little optimistic. Too much extracurricular activity going on. Think of it in terms of the way your eye moves through it, start there. Is it graceful, or is it erratic, and chaotic? Eye movement is the chief determinant on how you feel about it. That's why artists pay so much attention to it. It's why engravers do, too, when they put in and take out detail. That's a conscious decision on their part to control your eye movement through the coin. They know the detail is the first place the eye goes to. And you thought they left all that to chance, lol...

    Look at your obverse, again. Do you see why MS61, now? Maybe MS62, but on a good day? Your eye can't sit still on that lovely thing. It's certainly not moving the way the engraver intended it to move. After all that painstaking work on it he did...
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  10. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Lots of cheek chatter, left field too. I think 60 to 61, but Morgans aren't my thing.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Not an expert on Morgans, but agree with MD: too many marks on a prime area. If they were spread out more, a bit more tolerable.
    Morgandude11 likes this.
  12. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    ....Thanks everyone...great feedback...Spark
    GoldFinger1969 and eddiespin like this.
  13. Penna_Boy

    Penna_Boy Just a nobody from the past

  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Here's a stupid question: 10 scratches/dings all disbursed around the coin looks "better" than 10 scratches all concentrated in one area like the above coin (at least to me). Do TPGs take that into account ?

    If "eye appeal" and other asesthetics (admittedly, subjective) matter....how can it NOT matter since you can't help but be drawn to all the marks on the cheek ? At least on a coin where they are all over you have to scan and look for a few seconds to see them all.
  15. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    That's not stupid. Do you want to know what stupid is? They are. Do they take what you're asking into account? Yes. It can't be helped. You just went over why it can't be helped, you feel "better" about the first type. That's not just you. It's everyone. It's even the TPG graders. But are they conscious of it? They're no more conscious of it than anybody else is. Which translates, they're unconscious.
    There it is, the way our eye moves through the coin. The engraver was conscious of it, and painstakingly so. NGC and PCGS? It's not even in their vocabulary.

    Some advice. Be smart. Pay attention to it when you're bidding, and you won't be sorry for it.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  16. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    What exactly do you mean? YOU graded her MS64/65 from pictures provided by PCGS?
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  17. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    Yes...but I knew obv. would lower it...imo...Spark
  18. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I could not see grading that coin any higher than MS-62, and that's pushing it. There is no way that it is an MS-63, until the standards change. :bored:
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  19. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity Supporter

    I have been a CT member for 3 1/2 years now, and in that time I have learned many things. One of the foremost is:

    When the majority of members agree that a grade is MS61, I believe the grade is MS61...no argument.

    Thanks again for everyones input...humbly, Spark
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Yes, not all marks/dings/scrapes/scratches are created equal. Marks on the obverse won't be penalized as much as the obverse just like ones hidden in the design won't hurt as much as the fields and so on. On Morgans the cheek is the worst place you can have marks
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Meant on the reverse in the first sentence
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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