1877 Trade Dollar *GRADE ME**AUTHENTICATE*

Hello,
This was my last buy on eBay regarding highly counterfeited coins. I did not TRY to buy one.. so I hope I have not. I read all the other threads on reasons why not to buy these from eBay, so yes I am a fool of sorts. But that's another thread :whistle:

First off, does this coin appear to be genuine?
Secondly, if so, what grade would you give this coin?





The coin weighs 27.4 grams.



Thank you!

 

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It appears to me to be a fake , the rim and denticles look off , also olive branch she is holding appears off , the stems to the bottom berries look too thick , stars way to shallow , a lot of alarms , I'd wait for the experts .
rzage

 

Hi, have you weighed it yet? Can you image a portion of the reeded edge, please? Thanks.(the photo of the edge is too blurry, I think it was to show the relief of the devices though)

 

Also, need a close up of the eagle's eye.

 

In the meantime, I will point out that it has a very weakly struck obverse, with flat stars and head of Liberty, which is the rule for the 1877 P. issue. In spite of that, the reverse is pretty well struck up, except for some letters at upper left and part of the motto. What I like about this coin is that it has authentic-looking luster in protected areas, and precise detail in the eagle's head and eye. Over all the rims look narrow enough and I believe the dentils are ok, although some of them are a bit weakly struck too. I don't see the pitting, fused dentils, or vestigial dentils often seen on fakes. So, if the weight is around 27g and the edge reeding looks uniform and edge to edge, I think it's most likely authentic. I believe it is EF (look at the gown folds and the eagle's wings and head). I can't tell if it was previously cleaned and retoned. I might not see some scratches or other hits. Hope that helps.

 

In my topics 1st post is the weight 27.4 grams

Here is the obverse denticles.




Here are the reverse denticles:




Here is a close-up (best I could get) of the eagle's eye.




Thanks for your input people!

rad1964

 

I see that the berry on my coin does not have the little ?branch coming from below, then into it. On the examples I pulled from Heritage Auctions, all had a little branch below that olive. On this grade of coin I would not expect that "branch" to have been worn out in that location, I now believe its a fake... wah...

 

Waait a minute I may have been comparing apple to oranges..
I copied the twig and berries from a HA auction and superimposed it onto my coin... Looks good.. no little branch up the center for either berry.

 

IMO it looks like it may authentic.(4 fingers, scroll pointing down,) Obv 2 and Rev 2. BTW, what program are you using to get the superimposed image ?................John

 

I used Adobe Photo shop then Adobe Fireworks, comes with the Adobe Master Suite.

 

Thanks Rad, I'll check it out.........................................John

 

Thanks for the additional photos, sorry I missed the weight in the op. I was sleepy. I believe it is genuine, based on your excellent photos, although I would reserve the right to change my mind if I actually had it in hand. The oblique images show the devices popping straight up out of the fields, just as they should, and the morphology of the dentils- probably the most crucial aspect of a trade dollar, looks good too, imo. If no one has fooled with the surfaces, you have a nice, original coin! No one has exactly figured out why the P mint TD's that year had such miserable obverse strikes. It would make an interesting conversation starter on a "grade this coin" thread. (I also agree with Mark Feld as to grade, fwiw, but he's an expert and the real deal!)

 

It looks genuine to me (XF45 perhaps?), but if you keep buying uncertified Trade Dollars, you are almost certain to end up with counterfeits. Many people think that they can successfully defy the odds, but very few do.

 

I became better at spotting fakes after I bought several and studied them. Quite a few of them are lurking in old collections- the Chinese have been copying them for over 100 years of course-- (speaking in general) so provenance is no guarantee of authenticity either. Two of the CC fakes I had were the perfect weight, and could only be outed by careful inspection with a 10x lens! Caution advised!

 

I'm very glad to hear that and applaud you for it.

 

After listening to some of the others , your's is probably real , that's why I said to wait for the experts , I PMed Ksparrow immediately , as I respect his opinion on Trade Dollars , I bought a Rtade dollar once and thought it was fake , then Sent it to ksparrow for evaluation , turned out real and a rare variety to boot , you have a very nice example .
The Chinese are getting very very good at making these even using 90% silver planchets , good collecting . And thanks for sharing .
rzage:hatch::hammer:

 

Kaz , sounds like you're working too much not like you to miss something like that .
rzage

 

Too much carousing does a dull numismatist make, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

 

LOL , And a good one at that .
rzage