1863 Indian Head Cent

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by shatsi, Nov 13, 2006.

  1. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    Bought it off Ebay and I'm including the dealer picture as well as my own taken over the weekend. My pic clearly shows the hits on the cheek that didn't show up in the dealers pic. But colors are not accurate in my pics as it does have nice bronze color with luster.

    I appreciate your opinion on the grade and value?

    [​IMG]

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    Thank you.
     
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  3. NathansCoin

    NathansCoin New Member

    Who did you get it from. There has been a little boom of FAKE Indian pennies. There very easy to counterfeit. ONCE you get it. take a look at the rim from a side view prospective. SEE IF THEIRS ANY, AND I MEAN ANY slight traces of smoothing out a ruff spot. I actually have a couple of fakes that I got off ebay that I thought where to good to be true, and I was right.

    On the other hand if its real and its MS63 which it looks, then your looking at raw coin value of about 150. Price from redbook. I WOULD SEND THIS ONE TO A TPG's Like PCGS NGC or ANACS. Jst to make sure. If you cant tell if its authentic. Safe bet, ANACS. MAKE SURE YOU DO IT FAST. As im asuming you just got this. ou will get it back from ANACS before the PAYPAL month is up to file a claim if it is indeed not real. Thats what I did. with both the ones i got. and I ended up getting the full price for the two pennies and the extra it cost me to send it out. Then the seller was cut off of ebay. I made a big stink over it. Good luck
     
  4. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    I don't think you got the coin pictured by the dealer. Besides the cheek look at
    • the ear detail
    • the knot in the center of the wreath
    • the neckline hair.

    Maybe its just a photoshopped version, but I'd be very, very suspicious.
     
  5. der_meister77

    der_meister77 Senior Member

    I agree with satootoko on those two pictures being of different coins.

    I have also noticed a difference with the VERY slight rim ding above the "T" in "UNITED" in the first picture and it is totally not present in the second picture.

    I am betting you received a different coin than you paid for...
     
  6. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    Dealer is j40d60

    After looking at it more closely I too feel its a photoshop work. its the same coin but his pictures are edited I think. Thank you for your opinion, I think I'll return it.
     
  7. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    I've seen much worse feedback, but some of it is consistent with what happened to you. :(
     
  8. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    That's a great site, I'll be using it often.

    Even I'm worried that he might not give me his street address to return the coin. The address I have is a PO Box and I don't want to send to a PO Box as I can't insure the package.
     
  9. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Why not? [​IMG]

    I've been receiving insured packages at my PO box for over 40 years.
     
  10. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Well I'm 100% its the same coin in both photos---look at the carbon spot below the E in STATES---is in both photos---I would also send back the coin---look for a really nice one!...you might get one cheaper if you look for one in an off brand slab...NTC or NNC or PCI or SEGS.

    Speedy
     
  11. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    I guess I thought since there's no signature we can't prove that it was delivered.

    I guess I'll wait till tomorro and if I don't hear from him then I'll just mail it.
     
  12. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Insured packages are not placed in the PO box. Instead there is a pickup slip, so the boxholder goes to the counter, signs, and gets the package. Also, unless the counter person knows the boxholder, ID is required for counter pickups.
     
  13. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    It is the same coin, but the seller looks to have photoshopped the obverse image...Mike
     
  14. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    He replied to my email and expected the return. It'll go out tomorrow. Thank you.
     
  15. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    shatsi,

    I stay away from all auctions for IHC where the coin does not look natural, has fuzzy pictures(typically HGCS and ANI auctions) or I can not grade the coin. Might be one of the reason I do not win many auctions. Even your pictures would be a "skip me" in my book. I did get a couple of questionable common date coins that when I looked real close they matched what was in the auction - but because of the photos I could not really see the nicks and wear. I do not know what you paid for it, but if you got it cheap enough I would still keep it. I did manage to win some coins advertised at MS, which I though were AU and paid about XF dollars for(not recently though). I won't post the names of some of the sellers I question - I know one has been mentioned on this board before. But I have used Harlan Berk to buy from - the funny thing is I see raw and graded coins go for more than I could buy from a dealer and I think on Berks website I get good pictures(oh yeah - I think a few of the coins are way overpriced, but just my opinion). Just my lincoln cent worth.:)

    Just gotta love IHC!!! Oh - I also recommend the Richard Snow red book on IHC. In the back in talks about some of the fakes out there.
     
  16. shatsi

    shatsi Senior Member

    I sent it back, now waiting for him to receive it.
     
  17. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Probably the same coin, I agree about the carbon spot, also that the photo was doctored.
     
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