Big batch of AUREII withdrawn from CNG

I think a real influence from my personal reaction on their deals would be somewhere near 0....
I do love this Shapur dinar and do not want to return it because this is a fantastic beautiful and charismatic coin.

But if they will be banned from CNG and etc. I think they will be sensitive on such a reaction.

 

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A perfect, undetectable, restoration? What’s not to love….?

 

Personally, if I had the money/desire I would buy one of these aureii. However:

1. The work done must be disclosed
2. I would want it at a sharp discount from unaltered coins due to the defect

Work or not, the coin is still a genuine artifact of history. The debate I have though is - would I pay more for a coin with the hole patched than one with the hole unpatched?

I guess if the hole was made in antiquity, then the "holey" version should go for more. If the hole was recent, then I'd pay more for the patched one.

However, attempting to pass one of these off as unpatched is pure fraud that should lead directly to prison.

 

Reminder: This isn't just happening to gold.

In copper, Jack Young has demonstrated very convincing repaired holed large cents. https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/s...796-s-85-large-cent-1-page-attribution-guide/

Silver can also be repaired in convincing ways.

 

If everyone had that mindset, there would be no accountability. Don't enable them!

 

Appear to have lost detail... though maybe thats just the picture?

 

What does "professionally conserved and restored" mean? This expression is used by CNG on one lot i've been watching. Is it another way of saying "tooled"? If an auction house is to use such an expression, I'd prefer they include specific details of what exactly has been done.

 

I would assume this just means cleaned unless the lot says tooled or something like that. There are a few coins in the auction with that description, and I don't want to know which one you're looking at, but as far as I can tell all have had market acceptable cleaning and perhaps some basic sulphur darkening but I don't see any where that seems to be a euphemism for "tooled".

 

It’s not a nefarious euphemism. Cleaned and conserved means just that - corrosion products removed from the surface through mechanical, chemical or electrolytic cleaning, done in a professional manner so as to stabilise the coin against future decay. In most cases it’s not practical to mention what has been done, since this sort of work is contracted out to a third party, but since ALL ancient coins have been cleaned at some point, it’s usually only mentioned when the coin has already appeared at auction in its earlier state - some digging in auction archives might yield the ‘before’ photo.

 

Good to know! Maybe they should write "nothing nefarious has happened" in the item description. I withheld bidding because i didn't understand the term, but now i can go nuts.

 

I liked and and would have valued the coin much higher with the test cut.

 

Coins of that type are frequently seen with cuts and countermarks. Mine is only mine because the seller considered it doubly defective.

Personally, I prefer the hole to the horribly brushed surfaces that show up even in most of the photos here. That is a minority opinion and mine means nothing since I do not buy gold coins polished or not. I do want one but a specific one and regret that one does not appear in the group still with its hole. While I am softening in my opposition to slabbed coins and appreciate the effort NGC puts into these things, I still believe that their grading system causes some of this by emphasizing the wear grade expressed in letters the least experienced think they understand at the expense of the strike and surface ratings given as fractions that probably mystify a good number of the new buyers that NGC was created to bring into the hobby. I may be the only one but I would much prefer a F 5/5 5/5 to a MS 1/5 1/5. NGC remade the standard grading system for ancients but only went half way retaining those letters that fool people. A MS 1/5 1/5 (if there ever has been one) is not a nice coin.

I can not pass up the opportunity to show again (and again) the numismatic item I would most like to own (or even see just to know where and that it exists). My photo is French and from the late 1850's. I believe the coins are Postumus (???). Each has four holes to accept the double rings of the bracelet. That would be some provenance. I could forgive those holes.

 

"Conserved" is generally a good thing. "Restored", on the other hand, should raise an eyebrow. Kudos to the cataloguer for honesty.

 

Collectors have long wondered what happens when we get to the point of undetectable repairs and/or counterfeits. It appears we are now there, or very close.

 

I totally agree with that.
I have a coin with a repaired hole i'm very happy with

 

Extend it to, “Nothing nefarious has happened… wink wink”

Just a joke, not implying anything

 

This is a wonderful coin, but I really cannot see how the plugging of the hole made the coin any more collectable. In a sense it is an honest repair, since it is still clearly visible. Then again, the smoothing of the repair has affected areas of the coin that were initially not affected by the hole, making things worse if anything, in my opinion.

But again, this is a wonderful and highly collectable coin, but I would have preferred the originally holed version.

 

I'd be fine with owning a coin with that type of repair, although if I'd bought it holed I'd have left it that way.

I think there's a big difference between repairing a hole in the field that isn't impinging on any of the devices, and "repairing" a hole or test cut that goes through the design and therefore requires the work of the original engraver to be replaced with that of someone modern.

It's like the difference between having a tear/cut in the canvas of an old oil painting that can be repaired without materially changing the painting, or finding a Mona Lisa where someone in the past cut the face out, and someone modern deciding to patch in some new canvas and paint a new face in.

 

Differences of opinion. To some, as soon as you see the hole the entire coin is kind of "ruined", and all your eye sees is the hole. Its hard to really pay attention to the rest of the coin. I get it. I am not necessarily that way, owning many rare coins that are holed, but I get it.

 

I guess it depends on whether one sees a coin as an "historical artifact" or as an "object of value." For those in it to show off the shiniest and most valuable coins, that test cut or hole absolutely lowers the value and thus the interest.

Personally, though I don't own any such coins, I would potentially buy one. Test cuts intrigue me because it means someone actually bought something with the coin. It wasn't just squirreled away shortly after minting. What did it buy? That kind of mystery fascinates me.

In terms of "holey" coins, it depends on the estimate of when the hole was made. If it's from antiquity, then it absolutely increases the value to me. Did some ancient princess wear it? This was a very precious artifact to someone and not just one of a thousand stashed away.

Of course, if the hole was made more recently (1900's and on) then my reaction is #*#(& people (&#$*ing with perfectly good coins! Call this unfair, but that's my opinion.