Featured Mithrdates, He Died Old

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kevin McGonigal, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths


    As you command,

    Pseudo-Athenian New Style Tetradrachm c86-84 BC

    Obs: Fine style head of Athena Parthenos with prominent highly artistic horse protomes.
    Rev: Owl standing on panathenaic amphora
    2 Monograms of Roman official Marcus Lucullus: Quaestor
    MAPKOY TAMIOY
    Name and office
    !6.40gm 28.5mm
    Thompson Sulla ll Obs: 1315 Rev: NEW?
    All surrounded by olive wreath

    [​IMG]

    Minted by Sulla's forces under Marcus Lucullus nand noted as such in the sources where they are called "Lucullan's"
     
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  3. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Meanwhile back in Athens,
    Athens AE2 Star & 2 Crescents Chalkous 87/6 BC
    Obv: Athena in Corinthian helmet
    Rev: Grounded fulminating Zeus advancing right about to hurl thunderbolt
    ΑΘΕ
    ethnic surrounding Zeus
    Symbol RF: Pontic Star & 2 Crescents
    AE2 (18mm) 9.05gm
    Kroll 97 Mithradatic war issue King Mithradates & Aristion as magistrates
    [​IMG]

    Things really started to hit the fan when these were produced.
     
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  4. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Great coins, thank you for sharing :)
    The AE was a kind of emergency issue during the siege then?
     
  5. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Yes, I believe so. Silver was running out fast, the tetradrachms of Mithradates and Aristion had few obverses, drachms were produced and GOLD, which is always a sign of desperation. Lots of AE's are found which have a large lead content and some are cancelled!
     
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  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    upload_2020-6-29_15-21-17.png
    Athens AE19 c 87-86 BCE Time of SULLA Athena Zeus Sear Grk 2567
     
  7. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Let me second that request. I did not know there was such a coin issued.
     
  8. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    He posted two on top of page 2, Kevin. Both very interesting coins.
    I’ll be looking for one of the AEs. In one of my trays of unidentified coins, in fact. That is a historical coin for sure (or both are, but the silver coin is so expensive.)
     
  9. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I have one of these new style tetradrachmas but never knew this was the mark of Sulla's man. I'll have to look closely at mine to see if it might be this exact coin. Yours is a real beauty as well as real rarity.
     
    NewStyleKing likes this.
  10. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Mithradates VI Ar Tetradrachm Pergamon 74 B.C. Obv. head right Rv.stag grazing left withinDionysiac wreath De Callatay D61/ 16.83 grms 31mm Photo by W. Hansen pontic5.jpg
     
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  11. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    According to deCallatay in "les guerres Mithradatiques...pour les views monnaise", Pegasos types have a veristic portrait whilst the Stag has a more heroic/Alexander like with flowing wind blown locks.
    The stag reverse superseded the pegasus reverse in 88 BC I don't know if Francoise says why but his superb book is in French of which I know next to nothing!

    Athens AU Star between 2 crescents BM.

    Suddenly issues out of the usual types in gold are always signs of desperate times. Nothing could be worse than Mr Lucky hammering on your doors. Following Bellingers remark I put the Athenian silver stars and 2 crescents along with possible Mithradatic coins minted in Athens? with a huge mintage thundering Zeus AE type in 88/87 and only bronze in 87/86 to make up the lack of silver.
    upload_2020-6-30_12-29-28.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  12. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Is that yours? If yes, amazing coin!

    Glad to have you on the forum, it is always nice to have collectors who focus in particular regions/kings/cities and can increase knowledge on everyone on the forum. On the end we have an awesome community here with collectors/amateur numismatists who have passion and knowledge about all different kind of topics in ancient coinage.
     
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  13. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

  14. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    No No No! The BM's. It's equivalent is those emergency gold old styles made from melting down statues around Athena Parthenos at the time of trouble at the end of the Peloponnesian wars. No doubt the replacements was the source for these too!
     
  15. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    This heroic style Mithradates Stag is month 3, The A above the control mark is believed by some to be year 1 of the new Athenian era thus 89/88 or 88/7 BC. Others exist upto Delta year 4.
    Very rare.
    But on that reckoning year 4 would be after after the end of the siege of Athens- maybe they were minted in Pergamum for Athens and never got there....but it does appear to be a era date. Most of the controls on theses coins are inexplicable, but Pergamum the seat of the new Mithradatic empire has clear typical controls PiE for Pergamum. Maybe Ephesos without the EPhiE to extinguish the "Roman Province of Asia" era dates on Roman Cistaphori? Ephesos was right on in the knife of the Asiatic vespers-did change their mind a couple of years later!


    upload_2020-6-30_15-0-52.png Gemini auctions
     
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  16. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Mr Cheeseman, Why do you say your excellent Mithradatic Stag is Pergamum mint? 74 is basically the beginning of the 3rd Mithradatic war.
    Fimbria kicked his butt out and young Mithridates too in 85 BC whilst peregrinating all over Asia Minor, taking this, defeating them here there and everywhere including Pergamum where, Fimbria minted his own rare cistaphori.
    Mithradates never again occupied Pergamum after 85 and was forced back to Pontus/Bithynia/Cappadocia, Paphlagonia type areas again after the agreement of Dardanus with Sulla.
    Fimbria didn't fancy Sulla's warm friendly embrace and committed suicide.
     
  17. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Witschonke, Richard, Amandry, Michel, “Another Fimbria Cistophorus” American Journal of Numismatics Vol 16/17 2005


    A very interesting paper for the background to the Rome-Pontic times about Fimbria. Identifies his forbears and his peregrinations around Asia Minor avoiding Sulla, killing Flaccus and defeating Mithradates jnr. whilst taking Pergamum in 85 BC. Concludes that these rare coins were minted in Pergamum.

    Really good paper!
     
  18. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Probably simply copying some bad info. Ooops
     
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  19. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Since you appear to know a great deal about these New Style Athenian tetradrachmas, I wonder if you would take a look at mine. It probably has no connection with Mithradates but could you tell me anything about this particular issued, especially anything related to date or minting official? Thanks, anyone. IMG_1441[5715]Athena rev..jpg IMG_1440[5719]Athena obv.jpg
     
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  20. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    It is avery nice example of Thompson's middle catalogue of Dioge, Posei, Hegma of the Dionysus, Thyrsus and Cup type on the amended internal chronology of Andrew Meadows of 129/128 BC. It is obverse die-linked to Cornucopia and Grain Stalk below.
    It is a light coinage amongst light coinage and sadly nothing special to report, drachms and hemidrachms do exist for type.

    I cannot read an amphora month date letter , ( but possibly a E ),but 2nd control is DI and as far as I can make out is Thompson obverse die 416X which makes it a new reverse die mated with that obverse combination, that reverse might be mated with another close by obverse though!.
     
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  21. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    It does weigh 16.8 grams, which is a bit light, but I gather it is supposed to be about this weight. Any reason you know for why this group is a bit light? Shortage of bullion? Rise in the price and value of silver? Thanks for the info.
     
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