How to ship ancient coin from USA to UK?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Libby007, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    Donna ML wrote:
    None of the packages I've gotten from abroad say "coins" on the customs declarations -- among other things, it's an invitation to theft. How about "numismatic collectibles"?

    That's fine EXCEPT when one is lost in transit and the original invoice states "coin" - the insurance claim is denied. That's what I'm trying to avoid after losing - now - nearly $2,000 worth of coins.
     
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  3. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    A coin is an object that can be spent for goods and/or services. An ancient is not. It is a collectible item. Research postal standard on this fir proper shipping and insurance. Use registered mail.
     
    Andrew McCabe and DonnaML like this.
  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Registered mail is basically worthless internationally. Priority or express is how to ship internationally
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  5. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    It’s amazing that there seems no consensus on this issue. From a strictly monetary standpoint, am I in the very minority that is very concerned about what happens when one ships a coin out of the Good ‘ol USofA?
     
  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    The original invoices I receive don't say "coin" on them. They say things like "AR tetradrachm." Such an item may have been a coin once, a long time ago. It isn't one now. It is, in fact, a numismatic collectible. An antique.
     
  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    How about "Art Object" or "Metal Stamping"?
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    @Libby007, according to the U.S. Post Office's own website, you can, in fact, send packages internationally even if you call what's inside "coins." You just can't do so using Priority Mail Express International service -- you can use only regular Priority Mail International Service or Registered mail.

    All emphases in the quotations below are supplied. This does not constitute legal advice or establish an attorney-client relationship between us!

    See https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_013.htm:

    134 Valuable Articles

    134.1 Service Options

    The following services can be used to send the articles noted in 134.2:

    First-Class Mail International service with Registered Mail service or First-Class Package International Service with Registered Mail service.

    Priority Mail International service.

    Note: Priority Mail Express International service cannot be used to send the articles noted in 134.2.


    134.2 List of Articles

    The following valuable articles may be sent only with the services noted in 134.1:

    Coins, banknotes, and currency notes (paper money).

    Instruments payable to bearer. (The term “instruments payable to bearer” includes checks, drafts, or securities that can be legally cashed or easily negotiated by anyone who may come into possession of them. A check or draft payable to a specific payee is not regarded as payable to bearer unless the payee has endorsed it. If not endorsed, or if endorsed in favor of another specific payee, it is not regarded as payable to bearer.)

    Traveler’s checks.

    Manufactured and unmanufactured platinum, gold, and silver.

    Precious stones, jewels, jewelry, watches, and other valuable articles.

    Note: The term “jewelry” is generally understood to denote articles of more than nominal value. Inexpensive jewelry, watches, such as tie clasps and costume jewelry, containing little or no precious metal, is not considered to be jewelry within the meaning of this section and is accepted under the same conditions as other mailable merchandise to any country. Inexpensive jewelry is accepted to countries that prohibit jewelry, but only at the sender’s risk.

    See also the individual rules for shipping to the UK, which state in pertinent part:

    https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/tz_018.htm

    "Notes:

    Coins; banknotes; currency notes, including paper money; securities of any kind payable to bearer; traveler’s checks; platinum, gold, and silver; precious stones; jewelry; watches; and other valuable articles are prohibited in Priority Mail Express International shipments to the United Kingdom."

    This appears to be consistent with what I previously quoted. Why say that if shipment of coins were entirely prohibited by any method?

    Also note that in the insurance section, under payable claims, the payment of insurance claims for coins of numismatic value is expressly contemplated.

    https://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_013.htm

    Payable Claims

    Listed below are the payable insurance claims for lost, damaged, or missing contents of insured mail, Registered Mail, or COD mail, within the amount covered by the fee paid, or within the indemnity limits for Priority Mail Express and Priority Mail service:
    . . . .

    g. The value of collectible items as substantiated by one of the following:
    1. Sales receipt.
    2. Paid Invoice or paid bill of sale.
    3. Statement of value from a reputable dealer.
      Note: A reputable dealer is defined as a licensed business owner who is qualified to estimate value or cost of repairs for the item.

      h. The fair market value for collectible stamps of philatelic value or for coins of numismatic value, determined as follows:
    1. The fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers.
    2. The date of the determined fair market value must be the most recent available (but before the mailing date).
     
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  9. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    Well done, councilor. Send me the bill for services rendered. I‘m an attorney. So a professional discount would be appreciated. Godspeed.
     
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  10. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Personally, though, I still think it's safer overall not to use the word "coins" on any customs declaration. There's a greater chance that using that word will get your package stolen, than there is that a package not using that word will be lost.

    Some more suggestions for terminology that I found by googling:

    1) Numismatic collectibles
    2) Numismatic hobby supplies
    3) Commemorative rounds
    4) Stamped metal rounds
    5) Numismatic tokens
    6. Hobby supplies
     
  11. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    Here's the glitch: Sec. 130 Explicitly prohibits the shipment of coins from the US to Great Britain with no mention of inclusions or exclusions of USPS services methods (Priority; Express; 1st Class, etc). This is where - I believe - USPS would renege on the paying of a claim. That being, that coins are expressly singled out as a prohibited item.
     
  12. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    Here's a footnote: According to InsurePost the mere fact the in USPS pages the United Kingdom is a prohibited destination for the shipment of coins makes any shipment of coins non-insurable. The same wording that eBay's shipping insurance company said when they denied a claim I had for a lost coin shipment to the UK. They all want our insurance money....But, Lordy, they do not want to pay!
     
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Don't ship by USPS, then. Use DHL or an equivalent courier service
     
  14. Libby007

    Libby007 Active Member

    DonnaML - Thank you ever so much for all your input - But - That's the whole problem. I've checked with FedEx, UPS and DHL and they all say NO to the UK for coins. I'm just not sure what options - if any - I have left......DRAT!
     
  15. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Being a retired postal employee Iceoukd ship registered. It must be signed for, there's a paper and an electronic trail and you can unsure it at a lower price.
     
  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Then you need to try to find out how the major auction houses for ancient coins in the USA -- Heritage, CNG, Stack's Bowers, and so on -- manage to ship coins to their UK customers and insure those shipments, because I'm sure they do. (I suspect, however, that the shipments are covered by those companies' own insurance policies, and that they don't have to insure shipments individually.)
     
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Thats not how it works internationally which is what was being asked about
     
  18. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Perplexing thread.

    I live in UK. I've received probably 500 separate shippings of ancient coins from USA over the years. None have ever been stopped. Almost all have been insured. Typically I see descriptions such as "ancient token over 100 years old", "roman Republican denarius over 100 years old", "metal stamping over 100 years old", "religious medal over 100 years old" etc. (they show Gods after all)

    You have to add "over 100 years old' to attract the correct tax rate (5% rather than 20%) and then you describe item correctly just using any word except coin. Problem solved
     
  19. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I've only been retired 2 1/2 years. It worked that way then.
     
  20. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    This makes perfect sense. @Libby007, one has to be accurate (so one can't be accused of dishonesty if it is necessary to make an insurance claim) while trying to avoid the word "coin." Not only because of the problems that using that word causes with shipping and insurance, but because, as I mentioned in my first comment here, it greatly increases the risk of theft. If your lost shipments used the word "coin(s)" on the customs forms or otherwise, that may well account for the loss in the first place.

    In addition, even if "coins" is part of the business name of the dealers from whom I buy, either in the USA or internationally, they tend not to use that word on the envelope in their return address. If the name is "Joe's Coins," they'll put down something like "Joe's Parts" or "Joe's Metals" instead.

    Interestingly, given what you were told by DHL, it's apparently not a problem going in the other direction. I've bought coins several times from London Ancient Coins, which has shipped my purchases to me in the USA by DHL Express. As has a dealer in Spain. I found the most recent DHL envelope from the UK, and it says "Content Description: Ancient coins 100 years old." Something most dealers don't actually say even if doing so isn't an obstacle to acceptance by the shipper.
     
  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Registered basically isn't registered anymore once it leaves the US

    https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-is-Registered-Mail-International
    • A receipt issued by the office of mailing and a delivery record maintained at the office of destination for each registered item (the recipient's signature is not required in the destination country).
    • In the United States, Registered Mail service items are handled separately from all other mail and are kept in a secure area with restricted access. In destination countries, Registered Mail service items are handled according to their own internal procedures.
    If you read further the max insurance is lower as well. You're basically just advertising steal me on something that will be handled like slow first class mail in the vast majority of the world

    Priority and express mail still get expedited service after customs in the majority of the world. It's safer and better to use those for international
     
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