Is this counterfeit?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by sandpquan, May 27, 2008.

  1. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    Is this 1) counterfeit?
    2) accidentally bleached?
    3) worth anything?
    If I ask someone at the bank will they take it away from me if they think it's fake?

    THANKS!
     

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  3. Scrap Metal

    Scrap Metal New Member

    Does it have any of the colored threads that such bills used to have? They are blue and red and almost look like hair lines they are so small and random.
     
  4. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    Scrap Metal,
    Yes, it does.
     
  5. Scrap Metal

    Scrap Metal New Member

    Then my guess is that it is just sloppy. Counterfeiters generally make $20's and up, as spreading fives around is not really profitable.
     
  6. urbanchemist

    urbanchemist US/WORLD CURRENCY JUNKIE

    it is probably real if it has the blue and red fibers. i could just be a printing error. ie to much ink or some type of ink smear. if it is a real bill it could be quite valuable.
     
  7. RickieB

    RickieB Expert Plunger Sniper

    The reverse of that note looks as if it were sprayed with a solvent/chemical agent to create the running ink look.
    I have no way of proving it but logic says it was created by human hands and not the printing method. Look closely and you can see where it looks as if it were rubbed as well..maybe with a sponge for the blotting effect..

    I very well could be wrong, however, that is my feeling. I have looked at a lot of errors that come from the BEP and have honestly never seen one like this before. It is just too sloppy!

    RickieB
     
  8. gatzdon

    gatzdon Numismatist

    Solvent smears tend to look just like that, a very pronounced smear. This note almost looks like someone used it to do a little thin layer chromotagraphy with it. But, I have also seen legitimate small ink smears that looked more like splotches than an actual smear.

    So, my suggestion would be, since having the note in hand makes it much easier to tell the difference, is to show up at a couple coin shows and ask each and every paper dealer their opinion.

    One thing that should still stand out is the non-affected areas should still be embossed and have the ink raised like a normal note. Don't know how easy it would be for someone to fake this type of error without affecting that property of the non-affected areas. Also, since this would be a first printing error, there should be no evidence of the solvent affecting the obverse of the note, but if someone was blotting the reverse, it's possible that no solvent would have leeched through to front anyway.
     
  9. ozarktravler

    ozarktravler Senior Member

    NO, its actually error

    Hold it up to light, look for the thread USA FIVE , if thread is there? you have genuine Five dollar bill. Many stores have marking pens as do banks, if NOT trying pass it , ask some-one to use marking pen. AND if counterfiet , send us cell block number, prison address ,so we can send fan mail. :whistle: Good Luck...OzarkTravler
     
  10. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    Forgot to mention the year

    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you for all your feedback so far. I forgot to tell you that this is a 1988 bill so there is no USA $5 security thread yet. But as mentioned earlier it has the red and blue hairlike threads and I feel raised ink on the good side but not the other. Anyone have more information on solvents? This solvent didn't even affect the other side of the bill! (I may have to ask a counterfeiter). I'm taking it to the bank now...
     
  11. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Actually you might want to take it to a coin dealer first - banks might be forced to claim such error notes back and you don't really want that to happen.
     
  12. gatzdon

    gatzdon Numismatist

    NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't go to the Bank.

    No offense to any tellers out there, but most bank tellers wouldn't know. AND they could confiscate and send it to the Secret Service AND the law would be on their side (even if it's legit).

    ONLY take it to a coin shop, coin dealer, or a paper money dealer (best option) for an opinion.
     
  13. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    I went to the bank!

    Hi Everyone,
    The supervisor at the bank did a physical inspection and said it's real (by feeling the paper, finding red and blue fibers, rubbing Lincoln's collar with her fingernail and feeling ridges). She then went to some secret website and entered the serial numbers and determined that it has not been reported as a counterfeit. She told me to take it to a coin dealer/show to get it appraised because she's seen a lot of currency but never anything like this...so I got it back! :)
     
  14. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    Additional view

    We noticed that the front and back are not aligned properly and were thinking that they could have aborted this bill while in production. )See attachment of the $5 bill against the light) Anyone know the steps during production? Do they finish one side before they start the other? Oh, one more thing...I found out that the ink on the "bad" side is not supposed to be raised.
     

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  15. gatzdon

    gatzdon Numismatist

    The front and back never align perfectly. That's the reason why the back design is smaller than the front. They only need to get the back design aligned within the front to design to get the bill to look normal.
     
  16. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    I'm not much of a paper man, but I do know they print one side at a time. In fact, there is, I believe, three days in between printing each side to allow for proper drying.
    Guy~
     
  17. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Your bank is REALLY nice and actually returned it back to you. Wow.

    Not bad - if your bank actually says that it's genuine, chances are you really do have something there. I recommend you to take it to a dealer and ask for his second opinion as well as a ballpark figure. Good job finding it!
     
  18. gatzdon

    gatzdon Numismatist

    Personally, I wouldn't question whether the note is authentic, but rather question whether the error is authentic.

    Currently, I think OP has enough circumstantial evidence to justify treating it as a real error, until a couple good dealers indicate otherwise (don't just settle for the first opinion that comes along).

    The reverse, the obverse, and the overprint are printed in separate printings with at least a day between printings. With the new color, the background color is added as an offset printing separate from the intaglio printing, but I do not know yet if that is done at the same time as the intaglio printing, or if it is done as a separate printing with drying time allowed for.

    There is a member here, Numbers, who seems to be really up to date on how the BEP works.
     
  19. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

  20. sandpquan

    sandpquan New Member

    Here's a picture from my computer monitor

    Hello again,
    Someone bought this $10 bill April 19th from Heritage Auction Galleries for $230.00
    I uploaded my $5 bill again so you could compare.
     

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  21. Numbers

    Numbers Senior Member

    Well, errors aren't really my area, but I've seen a few solvent smears and this looks a lot like them. I have no idea how easy it'd be to fake this kind of thing, but it's certainly not one of the more common fake errors (the ones that are always available on Ebay at any given moment). My suspicion would be that it's a legitimate BEP error....
     
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