Are coin "reprints" the same as counterfeits?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by mecha1166, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    Just wondering, I asked in another well-known forum and received this response: (and I know coins are minted, not printed)

    "Hey, I probably didn't explain myself well...I was trying to say that reprints are fine if the seller advertises it that way, which then makes it not a counterfeit."

    Just wondering the legality of selling a "reprint" or "copy" if it is advertised as a "reprint" or "copy"? Especially if does NOT say COPY on it"

    I would never, ever sell these. I am trying to educate people that a counterfeit is a counterfeit is a counterfeit. and, "A counterfeit by any other name is still a counterfeit."

    Thank you for your kind reply.
     
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Best Answer
    There are copies, there are restrikes (sometimes by an official mint), there are overstrikes (striking a new design on part or all of an existing coin), and various other shades of meaning.

    As @cpm9ball said, there's a guy (actually a member here) named Dan Carr who produces "fantasy overstrikes", non-existent dates or designs overstruck on actual coins, without the COPY mark. There are strong differences of opinion here about his work, and I hope we can avoid turning this thread into just another Carr debate.

    There is a Hobby Protection Act which states that reproductions need to be stamped COPY, but I'm a bit fuzzy on its exact legal weight.

    There are also laws about counterfeiting coins, but those seem aimed to prevent interference with commerce. Law enforcement seems to care little about numismatic fakes.
     
    micbraun, Santinidollar and Jaelus like this.
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I think you're going to get opposing views on this subject, especially where coins such as those produced by D. Carr are concerned.

    Chris
     
  5. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Best Answer
    There are copies, there are restrikes (sometimes by an official mint), there are overstrikes (striking a new design on part or all of an existing coin), and various other shades of meaning.

    As @cpm9ball said, there's a guy (actually a member here) named Dan Carr who produces "fantasy overstrikes", non-existent dates or designs overstruck on actual coins, without the COPY mark. There are strong differences of opinion here about his work, and I hope we can avoid turning this thread into just another Carr debate.

    There is a Hobby Protection Act which states that reproductions need to be stamped COPY, but I'm a bit fuzzy on its exact legal weight.

    There are also laws about counterfeiting coins, but those seem aimed to prevent interference with commerce. Law enforcement seems to care little about numismatic fakes.
     
    micbraun, Santinidollar and Jaelus like this.
  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    We have a winner of the April, 2018, "British-like Understatement of the Month" award.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  7. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    How about a Chinese COPY that is not marked COPY. That is primarily what I am concerned with. eBay banned COPY coins a few years ago, even ones that were actually stamped COPY.
    Thanks for the info on Carr, and mint restrikes. Those are not on my radar.
     
  8. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    It is not against the Chinese laws for Chinese sellers ( check aliexpress.com) to sell unmarked fake coins , except for the current government's issues. It is illegal to resell them in the US as real, but most claim they didn't know themselves , refund the customer, and continue selling at yard/garage sales, and many of anonymous social media ad pages such as craiglist, etc.
     
    tommyc03 likes this.
  9. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    Thanks for the reply, desertgem. I know you have been here a while and are very informed. You even lived through that guy's Canada leaf flip coin fiasco/mess/meltdown! :)
     
  10. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    When it comes to any type of collectible, it is problematic if reproductions are not clearly marked as such. Even if the originator legitimately presents them accurately, they are knowingly providing an avenue for unscrupulous people to do bad things.

    They do this because they know that a perfect replica will sell more easily than one that has a big "Copy" across the face. So, the compromise is financially motivated.
     
  11. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    eBay stopped all sales of coin copies several years ago. Did you know in the baseball card market, no one seems to have a clue about fakes.

    I was told,

    "Hey, I probably didn't explain myself well...I was trying to say that reprints are fine if the seller advertises it that way, which then makes it not a counterfeit."

    I could not believe the naivety of that hobby.
     
  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    No, eBay changed their policy several years ago to say that you can no longer sell copies (even if they're marked COPY). Have they "stopped all sales"? Hah.

    Want an indicator about how seriously they take this policy change? If you go to report an auction for a counterfeit, the actual wording of the final choice is this:
    That's right -- years after the "policy change" went into effect, their own reporting process still refers to the previous policy (replicas are OK as long as they're clearly marked).
     
  13. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    If I try to sell a coin properly marked "COPY" as per the Hobby Protection Act, ebay will not allow me to sell it. If I sell a counterfeit and call it a reproduction or some other word-of-the-day that sounds nice, it's ok to list. I guess as long as sleezebay is getting their cut, they don't really care as long as no one raises a ruckus. So if you don't know you got screwed, it's ok.
     
  14. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    You are correct. As long as enough people do not complain, one can sell fakes all day long on eBay, according to eBay. If you tell eBay about fakes, they send a form letter:

    Hi hitekgamingmagic,


    Thank you for calling eBay Customer Service about this Item#: 391767726989 and 142726928025 . I can understand why you're concerned that someone you reported is still on eBay.


    I can tell you that it's our top priority to ensure eBay remains a safe and reputable place and we take reports of members breaking our rules very seriously. Let me assure you we have investigated and taken appropriate action in this case. As you know, it's important to protect member privacy, so we can't share details of any action we've taken on this member's account.


    The actions we take can include removing a listing, sending the member a warning, limiting buying and selling privileges, or even suspending the account. In some cases this means that the member may be allowed to continue to use eBay, but on a limited and closely-monitored basis.


    Before we take action, we consider the circumstances of a report and the member's Feedback, as well as any previous warnings or offenses. To be fair to all members, we won't take action unless a complaint can be proven with certainty.


    I hope I've explained things clearly. We greatly appreciate your time and support in helping us keep eBay a safe place to buy and sell.



    Kind Regards,


    eBay Customer Service
     
  15. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

  16. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

  17. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I feel a need to establish this directory tree on my Ubuntu server.
     
    micbraun, -jeffB and CoinCorgi like this.
  18. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Then you should be equally amazed at the naivety (ahem, hypocrisy) in this hobby, at least when it comes to a certain someone's copying that is often justified by the very same highlighted excuse above.
     
    heavycam.monstervam likes this.
  19. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    You should graduate to RedHat - you'd look good in a hat.
     
  20. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    ...and that's when the fight began.
     
  21. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Holy cats, man! I'm still rolling out my Ubuntu.
     
  22. mecha1166

    mecha1166 Junior Member

    Are "crazy toned" coins still a fad? Baked, then sold on eBay? I remember this was a fad about the same time as 3-D TVs.
     
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