One's a newp and one's a bygone. Both ex-CNG. Both with pedigrees from 1970. Both VF (per CNG) and toned. The first is much more sharply struck, but the second comes with some interesting provenance to a hoard found in France. The first (Coin A) cost around $300. The second (Coin B) cost only $148 after fees. Bearing that in mind, decide which you find more appealing. Coin A Coin B Interesting PDF about the hoard here.
Yes. Was still editing. Sorry. Labeled now. Indeed, he does look like he is wearing hair rollers there! Is a wee bit bugeyed, too- at least in one eye. Looks rather zombie-ish there. Medieval portraiture can be rather amusing, considering the punches they used to make the dies. That one actually has a really nice portrait for the time, though. That is no doubt why it cost twice as much as the second one.
Great coins @lordmarcovan while coin A has more eye appeal, coin B has a nice provenance. I just picked up a Henry II from the Gisors hoard in the latest CNG eAuction. Here is my most recent John penny. John I AR Short Cross Penny 1205 AD Canterbury mint; Arnaud moneyer; struck in the name of Henry II. 18mm 1.51g Obv: Crowned head facing; scepter to left; HENRICVSR EX Rev: Voided short cross; quatrefoil in each angle; +ARNAVD*ON*CANT SCBC 1351; North 970
The whole world will sing of an English king... I like coin A @lordmarcovan. I think the quality is worth the additional premium. Plus with coins that you think might have additional provenance there is a better chance of finding it if the coin is higher grade. Unfortunate but true.
I also vote voted for 4 coin A because I thought it was a better coin I also like your new acquisition
I voted for both but then I'm a sucker for Plantaganate pennies. Coin A has better style (which doesn't mean much with these coins IMHO) but the provenance of coin B makes it more interesting historically.
You've got a tough one. Great portrait on A. Without taking cost into account, there is no question, this is the right coin. But B is nice, the legends and portrait aren't bad and it is a lot cheaper. I think it depends on whether YOU have a good use for the $150 price differential. Great looking Coin A vs Decent looking Coin B + cool provenance + another cool $150 coin. Tough decision. If I have to choose, I'll pick A. You may want to check to see if there is any information on the Moneyers. Maybe Wilhelm T or Walter have an interesting story that would help sway the decision
I am a bit out of norm on this one. I think a coin from a known hoard is worth a few extra style points when picking between two coins. Is B pictures in the hoard data, or put another way do you know it is really from the hoard?
If CNG says it's from the hoard, that's good enough for me. I don't know what kind of documentation will come with it, beyond the invoice.
I considered bidding on that coin... but like coin A better. Interesting aside, as I was working on my doctorate, I was looking at payments to provision castles in the English pipe rolls. Bacons received specific mention a couple times, and it seemed to i ply that these may have been small pigs, rather than just a cut from a pig or form of curing. And hereks my John: England John, r. 1199-1216 (1205-1216) London Mint, AR Short Cross Penny, 18.12mm x 1.54 grams Obv.: hENRICVS RE[X]. Bust facing crowned with sceptre, curls enclose pellets Rev.: + WALTER . ON . LV. Short cross voided with quatrefoil in each angle Ref.: North 971, SCBC 1353, CC99 JH1D-020, De Wit 3196 Ex. Dr. Murray Gell-Mann Collection
I prefer coin A. Interesting info about the hoard, but not enough there to influence my preference. Still a fan of bacon! Funny...the cartoonish John on these.
As I sort of expected, Coin A crushed Coin B in the poll, though by a wider margin than I anticipated, given the hoard provenance of Coin B and the ~2x ($150-ish) price differential. I just paid CNG for Coin B yesterday afternoon. It sold for $120 ($148 to me, after buyer's fee and shipping). It was Lot 722 in their recent eAuction #413, from which @TheRed also got a penny from the same Gisors Hoard. I do like the faintly colored toning from this hoard. I suppose these were all cleaned/conserved circa 1970, when found, and have retoned attractively in the subsequent 48 years. So as far as the acquisition goes, I'm on the wrong end of this poll... sort of. You see, Coin A used to be a part of my "Eclectic Box" collection, but is, alas, no longer. It's gone, and I might not be getting it back - like my Aethelred II penny. *sigh* I sold Coin A back when my Eclectic Box was still the "Eclectic Box of 20", and I was keeping a fixed limit of 20 coins. I abandoned that restriction in mid-2017 and it now contains 31 pieces at last count... and growing. This new coin (Coin B above) will make 32. I'm due for a new Eclectic Box update soon! I let a lot of nice stuff go during the "Box of 20" phase. There is some seller's remorse with that, but then again, the four years I stuck to a 20-coin limit made my collection nicer, I think, and taught me how to be a little bit more detached and selective. Good lessons learned. So now I have another King John penny- and a nice one, too, I think- though it's not the equal of the one I let go, which now lives with @Aethelred, my oldest numismatic friend, who has pillaged acquired many of my nicer coins in our past dealings. (We've "shared custody" of many coins over the last 20 years.) He generally holds on more tightly to his collection, whereas mine tended to be a bit more of a "revolving door" during my "Box of 20" era.