Should I grant an eBay refund for a coin received 21 days ago?

^^^This. I got burned real bad on a 1921 peace dollar that I was so excited just getting I didn't even consider any kind of shady practices, thinking "oh, nice website, good prices, must be legit" ... then I learn a month later it's been cleaned/polished to death and is not Choice AU. Needless to say, I have NEVER forgotten about this, as it stays in my collection as a reminder more than anything. I will never buy from them again and actively warn others of this company's practices. I believe many people carry these "grudges" once getting burned, so I'm sure you will only benefit from this discussion and any further changes you make to how you operate your business.

 

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Id say a lot of people get burned in this hobby. CBD isnt doing anything new. Its a old scam that alot of people do. They look to make a quick buck, and dont care about screwing over people or the hobby.

 

OK...maybe this isn't the same thing, but I think about it when I read this thread...

A while back I stopped by the local liquor store and bought a 1.75 liter bottle of Jack Daniels (the "Big Boy"). The clerk put it in a flimsy black plastic bag. As I was getting out of the car, the bag broke and my bottle of Jack smashed all over the driveway.

The next time I was in the liquor store, I mentioned the mishap to the owner...half expecting him to make it "right". He just looked at me with his "It s**ks to be you" look. Ever since, I always make them double bag my order. I wouldn't even go there anymore if they didn't have the best prices in town.

Long story short...Buyer Beware.

 

So, uh, if the TPGs have the final, infallible word on a coin's grade, Edited~ forum rules on religion-sarcasm which one employs Elvis? I don't know of anyone else who can get it right 100% of the time.

 

I just had to offer this discussion ATS about something similiar about what the OP is being educated about and some of those big boys that drink coolaid about their TPG seems it's ok to dump an overgraded coin on someone else.

When I read opinions like this, it goes to show you many in this market will do anything for their pockets and try to convince the Novice collector otherwise.

Lastly, I feel the OP of the thread from ATS send the coin in for reconsideration, but just read what other members offer him to do

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=884293,

 

Well, it's true. Sometimes the only thing a consumer can do when they are "burned" or not given consideration is to stop purchasing from a seller and/or encourage others to do the same.

Long time ago, when I was not too well off, I needed to replace a kitchen faucet. To do this most expediently, I went to WalMart, and bought a "Popular Mechanic" brand one for about 21.00 that was controlled by WalMart in manufacturing (essentially Wal-Mart's brand). I paid a guy 35.00 or so to take my old one out and put this one in. He did, and I learned in the next week it had a slow drip that would not stop. I took the receipt and package back to WalMart and spoke with a supervisor. Their solution was for me to bring back that one and they would refund my money. I told them that was a poor solution for me, because I was already out 35.00 for the installation and I would have to hire someone to take that out, do the exchange and then re-install, which would cost me more and I really couldn't afford to do that. I asked them to replace it anyways, and they wouldn't.

So I wrote a letter to David Glass, the president or CEO (don't remember which at this time) of WalMart and informed him of my situation. I let him know that, as much as it pained WalMart, that the solution would be for Walmart to provide me a refund and the ability to put in another faucet that was not defective because not only did they sell the item, but they manufactured it. I let him know that if there was no solution, that at this time, I was unable to take it out and get a new one, but that I would stop shopping at WalMart and also inform others not to purchase items. And that any of my "disposable" income I would normally be going to WalMart to buy things with, that I would stop that and buy elsewhere. I let him know that WalMart had gotten a lot of my disposable income in past years.

Of course, I heard nothing back, and I stopped going to WalMart. With two exceptions (when my kids had money from their father to buy clothes there) I did not go into a WalMart to shop for over 5 years. I also told 10 people about this and asked them to think about not shopping at WalMart, and if they didn't, to at least never purchase anything there that had to be uninstalled to return it. When I finally did go into one over 5 years later, to shop, I figured that my disposable income that was likely to have gone to WalMart, had I not had that bad experience was somewhere between 18 and 30 thousand dollars. In the next 10 or so years, I was an infrequent Wal-mart shopper, and spent probably 30 thousand or more at other stores (Target, Mervyns, Penneys, etc.) for the things I used to routinely go to Wal-Mart for.
Only recently in the last 4 years have I gone more often to WalMart to shop, and I limit my purchases to items that are not "installed" and ones that are easy to return for any reason, as well as ones that for the most part are essentially the same as you can buy elsewhere (like paper towels, vacuum cleaner filters, etc.... ones where the manufacturer doesn't make a second-rate quality product for WalMart).

Approximately 18 years after that experience, I still remember it vividly that their product was not good, and that I lost out on other costs because of it (I actually lived with the drippy faucet for quite a while, and each time it dripped I remembered not to be shopping at WalMart). I also figure that in this time, I have personally put more than 60,000 dollars away from WalMart where they lost my business.

Now that is a lot of money for not wanting to figure out how to replace a faucet for someone who couldn't afford after putting the faucet in to hire someone to take the old one out and re-install it. That would have cost me another 50 or more dollars, and it wasn't in my budget. Wal-Mart lost over 60,000 dollars on this one, with that being a conservative figure --- working out to about 3,000 a year. I easily could spend that each and every year at a Wal-Mart if I so chose, just on household needs and presents, etc.

 

So, if you crack it out and offer it for sale as a raw coin but include the fact that it was graded by a TPG with a grade you don't agree with, that would be OK?

 

i that would be transparent and beneficial to would be buyers

 

When you guys send your crackouts back to the third party grader (because you believe the number assigned was wrong) do you let 'em know it came out of a third party holder?

 

You don't?!

 

No or it could simply be sent as a cross or review. The biggest reason to submit raw is to get an unhindered assessment of a coin IMO.

 

I think you did the right thing refunding the money completely and I hope you continue to rethink how you are conducting your business. I am hopeful in the long run this experience with have very positive results.

One more thing to think about. You said you got hit for listing the coin as "high grade" not because you didn't say it was "not cleaned." But, you did know it was cleaned and did not mention that in the listing. Remember, it is important to describe the item accurately. There is nothing wrong with highlighting the best parts of the item...but an honest description is also a must. Knowingly selling a cleaned coin with the defense that you never said it "wasn't cleaned" is just like knowingly selling a broken lamp to someone and then stating you didn't say it "wasn't broken."

I wish you the best of luck in your future business endeavors.

 

Yes, but still, if a coin is an obvious problem example, why crack at all if the coin is meant for resale? For every ebay buyer that puts weight on the seller's description, there is another who does not bother reading them at all. Burying "EX Details" somewhere in a description can still be misleading. Dreck, no matter what its form, is like a hot potato. Even the questionably graded stuff can make the rounds until the unfortunate buyer ends up with it, and the same can go for gennied slabs.

No one is saying that the TPGs are infallible. The point here is that we are not talking about coins in a gray area that could go either way; they are clearly problem coins that cannot meet the standards of any legitimate TPG, advanced collector, and even most recreational collectors. This idea of “opinion” is fine and dandy, but is too often used as a copout instead of being an honest assessment. There is very good reason why the OP (and other sellers with the same practice) do not resubmit coins such as these, but do others that they believe fit into the aforementioned gray area; they are not market acceptable and the gennie holder can be viewed in the same way as a scarlet letter. Even the newest of the new collectors can see that the coin was deemed a problem example, and can avoid buying if this is not in their collecting plan. Once cracked, the coin throws off its emblazoned “A” and can now be fluffed up to be something it is not, and this is where certain (novice, unsuspecting, inexperienced, etc) collectors can fall into a trap. This is absolutely different than – as an example – an early copper collector cracking a slab, or a collector who knowingly buys a gennied coin and cracks for an album; it all comes down to intent.

 

Awesome! Whether you think so or not, you are doing the right thing. You now have the chance to create a business that is not based on shady practices, but one that is above board and open to repeat business as well as word-of-mouth so that others know what to expect, and perhaps even pleased to be doing business with you.

 

Yeah. I feel much better for doing the right thing. Thanks to all!

 

Good for you, C-B-D!

 

Cheers Mate.

 

I think you're well on the way to transforming CBD from Cracked-Out Busted Dreck to Confident Busy Dealer!!

 

This one instance of giving in and doing the right thing does not give him a fresh start IMO. One guy getting his money back (which likely would have happened regardless of the OP's supposed epiphany) does not change anything, and for the life of me I cannot understand why some people are acting as if this makes everything okay; it does not. How about the people already duped by his crack out scheme or other questionable listing practices? This was not a one-time thing here, and if he really cared about anything more than the almighty profit, he would not have done it in the first place.

Earlier in this thread (IIRC) something was said about a leopard changing his spots, and while some do, from my experience most that walk the moral and ethical line rarely change, especially when it is their means of making money. Apologize and claim to see the light, but its right back to business as usual once heads are turned, so why pat this guy on the back for making a few unverifiable and unsubstantiated claims to change when he has really shown nothing?

I too hope the nonsense is over, but I will only believe it when I see it, and even then it would take some time.

 

Did you block him?...