WHO KNOWS THE 1862 $1???

Bought this obviously repaired 1862, second issue, $1 at an auction. It was identified as a 17a. I have two questions about the bill. 1. I cannot find the ABNCo monogram "near center at the right edge of face" which one reference book I have, sez I should have and 2. What does the "D" bottom left signify? Is it like "D" for Cleveland? Hope my scan is good enough to identify. Thanks gang! PS - Ebay had one for sale identified as a counterfeit - couldn't figure out how they knew it was counterfeit.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Because it's done in a script style, the monogram is tough to see on your note, but it's there. Here's a clipped shot from a higher grade note. It looks sort of like ABC. I think they meant the face of the note, not the face of the portrait.

 

I see it!!! Thank you so much - learn something everyday! Any idea on the "D"??? Can't believe they had FRN distinctions back then!

 

I believe the D is just the plate indicator. If four notes were printed per sheet (A-B-C-D) this would have been the bottom note. Other members may have a more knowledgeable explanation.

 

That's correct. The D signifies the plate position on the sheet.

 

I have seen one with an "e" but not an "f". How to find out how many on a sheet???

 

Four on a sheet, A-B-C-D.

What have you seen with an E? Not an 1862 $1....

 

I suppose this could be a very decorative
"C"????
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1862-1-Lega...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

It's the plate position, but it was engraved in a decorative manner. Times New Roman was not the cool font it is nowadays.

 

Yeah, that's a C, as the grading service noted on the holder ("pp C" next to the serial number means "plate position C").

Some of the later large-size notes were printed in sheets of eight, so the positions go up to H. Those sheets were cut in half before serial numbering, so they could go through the same numbering presses that handled the four-subject sheets.

Large-size Nationals are where it gets really crazy. They didn't have plate numbers; instead they indicated a replacement plate by incrementing the plate letters. So when the A-B-C-D plate wore out, the replacement plate would be E-F-G-H, and the next one would be I-J-K-L, and so on. Some of the large banks ran out of alphabet, so they got plates like AA-BB-CC-DD. If they ran out of *that* alphabet, they got A3-B3-C3-D3, and so forth. (Actually it's even more complicated because there were sometimes multiple denominations on the same sheet and that made the plate letters do even weirder things...but I'm already way off topic, so I'll stop now.)

 

Yes, this is a 17a
In Hessler's Reference the 17a does have NBC and ABC logos at the bottom of the Note as this one does. The Monogram is where gsalexan indicates.
The word "Series" of the Note is in the upper left first third of the note area, to the right of S.P. Chase portrait and from what I see it is 26 (however very worn) or what appears to be 26 w/o seeing it with a glass. The 17a has Series numbers listed from 1-166
There were ~17,033,000 notes printed of this Series
Salmon P. Chase's Portrait was painted by Henry Ulke and the engraving was done by Joseph P. Ourdan.

Fr# 17 and 16a are much rarer than the other Fr's 17a and Fr 16.
All varieties bear an Act Date of July 11, 1862

These notes were printed on very thin Banknote Paper that lacked any silk threads or other security devices and often contain edge splits. Therefore Gem notes must be listed w/o edge splits. In 2004 Martin Gengerke recorded ~878 notes of this type.
The last reported rate of survival is ~ 1 note for every 20,000 printed.

Numbers is also correct on his statement on Plate positions as well.

Regards,

 

Rickie B - Thank you for all the information, much appreciated! I am a beginning collector and the history of these notes is what attracts me. The "series" # of this note is 126. The one is faint.

 

I remember seeing a note holdered by PCGS as an Fr. 17, but it had a paper pull over the area of the monogram. I don't know if it was an error or truly a 17, which are exceptionally rare. I believe all 17s are from Series 1. Are all Series 1's an Fr. 17? Or is there another identifying characteristic?

 

PAPER MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES 20th Edition sez 17 only has "Series 1" upper left quadrant. So far, this is the only reference book I own that has properly identified the "17a". Also they say regarding the 17 , no ABCNo monogram , National Bank Note Co and American Bank Note Co. on bottom of 17. There are reference books giving incorrect information, including UNITED STATES PAPER MONEY by the same authors.

 

I bought my example from a lady where I work. She knew I collect U.S.paper currency and said a coin shop offered her $100 for the note. I doubled the offer and the rest is history. Mine is a Fr.16 with National Bank Note Company printed twice above lower border, and no ABNCo monogram. It's a series 207 , face plate letter A and face plate number 45.

 

Steve:

WOW!! Great Note!

Funkee:
I do have a little more info however I must leave at the moment and will reconnect over the weekend.

Great stuff Steve..

RickieB

 

Okay, here's too much information:

The first ~12,000 notes of Series 1 used the "original seal" (the circular background just behind the shield is solid red, with no white spokes). All of these are either Fr.17 (no ABNCo monogram) or Fr.17d (with ABNCo monogram). Both are very rare but 17 seems a bit rarer than 17d.

The rest of the 1862 $1's used the "modified seal" (background of spokes behind the shield).

The next ~12,000 notes of Series 1 are Fr.17b. These are just like 17d except they have the modified seal, and are also very rare. All three varieties so far (17, 17d, 17b) have the left-hand serial number superimposed on the seal.

Somewhere around serial number 24000 of Series 1, the left-hand serial number was moved onto the denomination counter. That created Fr.17a, which covers all notes from this point in Series 1 all the way through the middle of Series 166.

Then the ABNCo monogram was dropped, and the credit line at the bottom of the note was changed from National-American to National-National. That's Fr.16b, covering all notes from mid-Series 166 to mid-Series 174. This variety still carries the 1857 patent date, like all the previous varieties.

Then the 1857 patent date was removed, creating Fr.16. This variety *should* cover all notes from mid-Series 174 through Series 234. But it doesn't, because a couple of errors crept in through the use of old plates.

Five face plates (numbers 17, 19, 20, 22, 24) somehow missed being modified when the ABNCo credits were removed. These plates went back into use during Series 199. From mid-Series 199 to mid-Series 204, these plates were producing notes with the National-American credit line and the ABNCo monogram--so they look just like Fr.17a except that they don't have the 1857 patent date. These notes are Fr.17c. From mid-Series 199 to mid-Series 204, Fr.17c and Fr.16 are mixed together.

Then somebody caught the obsolete credit on those five plates, and modified the National-American credit to National-National like it was supposed to be...but they still forgot to remove the ABNCo monogram. Notes printed from these plates are Fr.16a. From mid-Series 204 to mid-Series 219, Fr.16a and Fr.16 are mixed together. At that point, the old ABNCo monograms were finally removed, and everything became Fr.16 again.

Lastly, beginning with Series 235, the series number was moved from the left side of the note to the right side. This last variety is Fr.16c, covering all notes from Series 235 through the end of the printing in Series 284.

And if you followed all of that, you're doing better than I am....

 

That was awesome. I always had trouble with all the 16's and 17's, especially since many of the rarer issues are not even documented in most guide books. Have you consulted for any of them?

 

Numbers..
Thanks for the added information..it is always better to know more than not.

For the (CH #1 / Fr.#17) I know that the Series was limited to only 100,000 Notes, what is new to me here is that you say there were 12000 issued with original seal? that is interesting! Would you mind sharing your source here?

When I collected certain Seal types there were Seal Numbers (micro) associated with them..somewhere I logged the information but have no idea where it is stored any longer. I remember reading an article on these seal numbers as well, cool and informative info!