Treasure find or not? 1964 Sets...

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Aslpride, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Aslpride

    Aslpride Member

    Hello, I would like to your opinion on my finding. In past few weeks. I have been busy sorting my grandpa's coins. Mostly focus on Morgan Dollars and research on VAMs. I was completed ignore my grandpa's Eisenhower Dollar coins as I thought they are not worth to investigating at that moment. During my research on Morgan Dollars, I discovery an article regarding to Eisenhower Dollar coins' condition sensitive. I learned that it's hard to find high grade on PA and Denver issued Eisenhower Dollar coins. I decide to focus on my grandpa's Eisenhower Dollar coins. During my search and discovery that it's hard to find higher grade on these coins due to circulated condition. Some of them does have luster, but not enough to reach MS 65 or higher. I was disappointed as anyone would. However, I read another article regarding to higher grade Eisenhower Dollar coins can be found from mints. I just remember that my parent does have them. I contact them and see if they allow me to look through to find any gem in it. They let me look through and warned me that they never look at them as they bought them and stored them. I thought it's cool that it has not been touch for longtime. I got the box called, "The Last 25 Years of U.S. Mint Sets". I look inside and the envelope did wear down, but the plastic are still in best condition. It was set from 1962 to 1986. (Year 1982 and 1983 never issued) I was just look through the dates, but not look on each mint. I found a treasure in very back of box. It was brown envelope and wasn't part of the set. I look inside and found a dollar coin of American Silver Eagles uncirculated version and it's 1987. I check the surface with naked eyes and 10X magnify. There is no flaw and very rich luster. I think it can strike MS 70. Scanned pictures didn't show very well, then I decide to use my Canon Rebel T1i for better insight of the images and it did. Here's picture of scanned and snapshots...

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    It was cool find. However, it didn't stop there. I was stumped with one package that I found in that set. I found three box like a box package in the set. One is black and other two are blue. I checked all of them and find out the blue ones are SMS (Special Mint Set) from 1966 and 1967. I checked the black box and was puzzled as it wasn't part of set. I have a paper that come with the box that explain years, coins issued and what kind of coins they are. The black box wasn't not listed. I asked my parent about that box. They didn't know, but they remember that they bought some of them in past and put together in one box. I decide to research on what in the black box. After research and would like to confirm if it's a true one? I will start by showing mint packages from 1964, 1966 and 1967 for reference. We understand 1966 and 1967 SMS are proof and 1964 mint packages aren't proof. Here's scanned pictures of them...

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    Ok, let's discuss on mystery black box the black box has two sets and both of them fit inside perfectly as seem a designed box. First set of coins isn't important, but second one are important one that I need your feedback. Here's picture of black package
    and what's inside...

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    Here's up close of first set...

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    It's set of 1963, but it seems that it's not a pure mint because penny have finger print on it and some imperfect marks on other coins.

    Now, here's next set of coins...

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    It's 1964 coins set.

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    Here's up close picture of it...

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    The biggest question, is it a 1964 SMS coins? That's what I want to know.

    Here's reflection on coins using my camera...

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    I can determined that the coins sets was in the box since it was packed. Here's picture of empty box and you can see tape residue stained on it...

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    My parent doesn't remember when they bought them, but remember purchased them in San Diego, CA. I can assume they bought it between 1986 to 1989 because we moved to Riverside, CA in the year of 1989. If it's real, then it was under radar that 1964 SMS hasn't recognize as rarity until 1993. My parent may be lucky to grab this treasure. However, it's not a treasure until it's confirmed. Your feedback will help me to determine it's authenticity.

    Thank you
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  3. fishwhacker

    fishwhacker Member

    There wasn't any special mint sets made in 1964. The 1963 and 1964 sets are worth in the neighborhood of 40 dollars.
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

    The first thing you MUST do is remove the 1987 SAE from that plastic flip. It appears to be the soft kind, and it could contain PVC which can be very harmful to coins. I'm not 100% positive, but there is no point taking any chances. If you have any other coins in similar flips, I would remove them too.

    In all likelihood, your 1964 set is not an SMS. It appears to be a "put together" set. I don't believe that the US Mint used the plastic cases that had screws. Those that they used just snapped together. Though there has been speculation that an SMS set exists for the 1964, I don't recall ever seeing or reading anything that substantiated this claim. It looks like it is a proof set, and you should check the Kennedy half dollar for the "Accented Hair" variety. It's easy to identify because the left base of the "I" in LIBERTY is missing.


    The Special Mint Sets were produced from 1965 to 1967. The 1965 set came in a white envelope and the coins were enclosed in cello. The 1966 & 1967 SMS sets came in the blue box and were encased in plastic. These are not proof sets. The Mint did not make proof sets for these years, but these SMS sets were produced using specially prepared dies which set them apart from the circulation strikes. There are a number of doubled die varieties for the SMS sets, particularly on the Kennedy half, so be sure to check them carefully.

    Chris
  5. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    Your "black box" set appears to be a 1964 Proof Set that was reholdered into a generic Capital Plastics Proof set holder. Nothing more and nothing less.
  6. ozleck77

    ozleck77 Member

    Upon scrolling down to check the ASE, I was really hoping it was toned due to 25 years of storage.
  7. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    There are 1964 SMS sets out there and dozens have been certified by the major grading companies. Many believe that all of the coins were originally part of the estate of a former director of the U.S. Mint... here's an article on the 1964 SMS coins:

    http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/5334

    That said, the 1964 Set in the black case pictured here is not one of them and is a standard proof set. The other 1964 Set you have is a standard Mint Set w/ coins from each Mint (Philadelphia & Denver).
  8. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball Cannot Re-Member

    No disrespect intended, illini, but that article seems to be self-serving for PCGS based on the last paragraph. It still doesn't substantiate the claim that they exist and more may be out there. Has anyone ever seen a complete set in the OGP? The fact that PCGS has graded a few coins of several denominations here and there that displayed an exceptional appearance is not good enough for me unless they can show me a set in the Mint packaging. Even if these sets did exist and were found in the (unauthorized?) possession of the former Mint Director, if it was decided that they shouldn't be produced or were just test samples for the 1965-1967 Sets, why didn't the US Government step in and confiscate them like they did the 1933 St. Gaudens?

    Granted, the coins from the estate of the former Director may well have been some of the test specimens, but to assume that the US Mint actually issued any 1964 SMS Sets is a stretch as far as I'm concerned.

    Chris
  9. PittsburghMom

    PittsburghMom Member

    Do coins usually rotate in the SMS sets? I've got a few of them, but don't recall any loose enough to cause rotated coins... His pic shows 2.
  10. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Wrong.

    1964 sets are proof, unless they are labeled uncirculated mint sets.

    65-67 are special mint sets and not proofs.
  11. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Yes, they can rotate. The holders for the 66 and 67 sets if you shake them the coins will rattle in them, and can rotate inside the holder.
  12. Aslpride

    Aslpride Member

    Hello everyone, thank you for your feedback. I appreciate it. Your perspective on 1964 set are proof has verify my research. I can verify that 1964 in that holder isn't proof set. The proof set must look like deep mirror reflection. I will go to coin store and buy 1964 proof set and see the different.

    Chris: Kennedy coin isn't Accent Hair version. Here's up close picture from miroscope camera...

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    Thank you for recommend me to remove the ASE from PVC to ensure it's preservation.

    Again, regarding to a proof set. It doesn't look like proof or even close, but 1964 proof set is one that missing from my parent's set. As I said, I will buy one today at coin store to see the different. However, I did check ebay on 1964 Kennedy proof coins. It's deep mirror reflection. It isn't like the 1964 set that I have with me. Here's picture...

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  13. Aslpride

    Aslpride Member

    Hello, everyone. I got the proof and did talk with dealer. He did stated to remove the plastic cover and it will show the real look. Yep, it's proof set. Plastic cover cause coin's deep mirror to be dull. Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it. However, the ASE is a prize and of course, it has been remove from pvc to hard plastic protection. I will send it to PCGS for grading. Hope to get a good news on that coin. :)
  14. 65coins

    65coins New Member

    Have same collection

    I just happened upon this thread as I also have the "Last 25 Years U.S. Mint Sets, and oddly enough, i came across the same 1987 Liberty Dollar in a plastic sleeve as a stand alone. Weird.
  15. mouse

    mouse Member

    Nice find. Don't send the eagle to get slabbed dealers could care less if it's ms 70 or not. They will only pay spot which is $32.38. Since there were so many of the 1964-1969 proof sets made dealers will only pay you scrap which is $12 for the 64s and $3.25 for the 65-69s. The 1963 is worth $25-$30. Great find.
  16. Numis-addict

    Numis-addict Addicted to coins

    Ironically, that article said that 64 peace dollars could have been meant to be in the 64 sms sets. when I said that was a possibility in another thread, the idea got shot down fast.
  17. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    I have several sets with some of the coins rotated around. I actually fixed one, revealed and it didn't take much for a few of the coins to rotate again.
  18. jaceravone

    jaceravone Member Supporter

    Chris, the reason why the US gov has not confiscated these sets, if they do exist, is the same reason why the US gov has not confiscated any other unauthorized coin leaving the mint since the mint was built. I don't know what that reason is, but IMHO, it has something to do with the fact that they only appear to interested in gold coins. Why not the 1913 nickels or a dozen other rarities? GOLD GOLD GOLD. Why is the mint protecting the half dozen GOLD sacs? WhY!? Why not sell them and help pay down the deficit? Its because they are gold and gold makes men greedy*.

    *some men, but not all, and when I say men, I really mean mankind therefore including women.

    As for the 64 SMS, I have my doubts too. There was no reason to test market these as some people are speculating for the 65-67 sms sets as these sets were made as an after thought to collector's rage when it was decided to not make collector sets during these years. So unless the gov knew something way in advance, I don't see why they would have produced these sets, unless they were a special request by some high ranking individual.
  19. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Dealers don't pay spot for a 1 oz. ASE. Their buy price is as much as $3.50 under spot.

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