Stacks or Heritage?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Savy, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    And as to fees what difference would they make if its between selling a coin for say $35k with no fees or it auctioning for $55k plus the buyers premium
     
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  3. Savy

    Savy Well-Known Member

    Well I really want to buy high value coins, but I will only start buying once I have everything planned out, including how I will sell it. I don't see how this is foolish. I am worried that I won't be able to buy high value coins because I will lose 30% upon selling it.
     
  4. john1942sept

    john1942sept Member

    What about $300 coins, $500 coins, $1000 coins?
     
  5. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    It's great to do homework and have a plan. Heck, I urge folks to do just that, too, but most folks do not take the time to sufficiently protect themselves. However, your question is just so broad yet you seem to be focused on such a small aspect of it that it makes me think you might be a little too focused on that aspect.

    To have a much better idea of downside protection one might need to know if you are possibly going to buy coins that have a large percentage of their value tied to their bullion content or not; if they are in stable, widely traded classic series or if they are in more volatile modern series; are they going to be pop-top coins influenced greatly by registry set competition or are they going to be below the pop-top threshold; how long will you hold the coins; what will the current condition of the overall market and economy be when you need to sell; do you value liquidity or possible gain more highly; will your aesthetic be the one currently in vogue when selling; etc....

    Additionally, have you weighed the various pros and cons of selling coins for yourself on a platform such as ebay vs. consignment to a dealer vs. outright sale to a dealer vs. consignment to a larger auction venue?

    There are quite a few large wrinkles to get through before one can get too concerned with selling fees. This is why I wrote my previous post.
     
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  6. doug444

    doug444 STAMPS and POSTCARDS too!

    I think the OP is doing the right thing analyzing resales before he invests, and in my mind, it's certainly not a case of penny-wise and pound-foolish. CT (and others) has plenty of posts from folks who bought such-and-such a coin, and ask us afterwards if they paid too much. There was quite a discussion about two weeks ago where I said, "you make your money when you BUY the coin, not when you sell it..." Of course, I still believe that, I have believed it for 30+ years.

    There's another alternative for the OP, but it depends on having a large active coin club nearby. There's a lot of old guys (like me) in their 60s and 70s who have started selling off their coins instead of turning them over to their clueless heirs. There's plenty of fine material to be bought, and no particular element of hurry-up, the sellers are patient while you do your marketing and grading research. One problem with this approach is you don't necessarily find what you want; you find a mish-mash of everything under the sun. Since I mostly collected Type Sets, that was not a big problem for me. Just another strategy. You also provide another benefit, i.e., paying in cash, and bingo, no paper trail, which matters to some sellers; on the other hand, you then have no proof what you paid for the coin, when the tax-man knocks.
     
    green18 likes this.
  7. Savy

    Savy Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. I have already considered most of those, although I am not familiar with registry sets. How do registry sets influence the market?
     
  8. Savy

    Savy Well-Known Member

    I buy most of my stuff online, as I live in Canada and it is mainly Canadian coins that are collected here. If I'm ever visiting the US, I will look into that. Are the prices typically better buying from the people in the coin club than buying on eBay or Heritage?
     
  9. fiatfiasco

    fiatfiasco Nasty Details Member

    Your conclusion is that you "think you would sell it in person" but you are asking if dealers (in person) pay fair amounts? I think you are over thinking what you think you thought to think.
     
  10. Edward Sulak

    Edward Sulak MuyGrande

    Also remember when consigning your coins to an auction like one of the two you listed, it doesn't instantly go up the week or maybe even the next week. So the price could possibly drop within the time being and in return you may not get what your intending. If you want to learn about buying, selling, and the market of coins a good book to read is The Coin Collectors Survival Manual by Scott Travers great read in my opinion.
     
    Tom B likes this.
  11. Savy

    Savy Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I'm about to purchase the book off Amazon :)
     
  12. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    I had forgotten about the Travers book, it is an excellent read and must be in its seventh edition or so by now.
     
  13. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Good question. I have a related question - I was looking at a rare 1842 gold eagle that has book values listed in the 10K range. Very few have appeared in auctions in recent years - but all of a sudden three came up in one Heritage auction. All graded AU58. They were listed right alongside one another. The first and the third sold for over 10K and the middle one for $3500. It was a little more baggy than the other two but still looked ok. If I had been selling that middle coin (and not either of the others along with it), I think I would have been a little miffed at it being listed alongside the other two. If you find yourself in a situation like that, can you withdraw your coin from the auction without penalty?

    Doug
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Savy, a point that no one has mentioned yet is this, and I would strongly consider it to be the first step in what you are considering. That would be for you to first establish a relationship with a dealer that you feel you can trust. And that you work your way up by starting with coins of less value than that you are talking about. In other words don't just jump into the deep end of the pool - learn to swim first ;)

    With more expensive and especially with high dollar coins timing is everything. And I do mean everything ! To come out with your skin intact you have to buy at the right time, and sell at the right time. And you also have to buy the right coins.

    Asking the questions you're asking is a good thing, but it shows that you are not prepared to do this on your own - you need help. That of course is why you are asking the questions, you know that. And the best way for you to get that help is for you to establish a relationship with a trusted and knowledgeable dealer over a period of time.

    Once you do that, everything else will fall into place all by itself.
     
    green18 likes this.
  15. Savy

    Savy Well-Known Member

    My problem is, is that most dealers here in Canada deal in Canadian coins. Are there any dealers I can get to know online who live in the US, and I could sell to them if I travel to the US? :)
     
  16. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    There are plenty of us who take the time to get to know potential clients and who are happy to work with reasonable folks. However, I don't recall if you wrote down what your interests are in coinage and this would factor into the pool of dealers who might be most useful.
     
    green18 likes this.
  17. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    I think Tom nailed it - in about post 3. My opinion only. I sold with heritage - no 40k coin, but I only paid a 5% premium. I have sold 3 ways and I usually summarize it like this:

    (1) Method 1 is to sell to a LCS. This is the quickest and easiest way to go. So basically you do not get as much, but you get the cash quicker. This method lost me the most money, but in some cases I could live with it.
    (2) Method 2 will probably net you the post. This is consigning coins to a dealer or a specialist. You can work on the percent commission charged with a good seller. This is probably the slowest way to sell - a good seller will work to get you the most. Of course assuming your price is reasonable to start with. I have worked with several in this method and felt the dealers where great to work with and did a great job. This method definitely netted me the most cash.
    (3) Method 3 is consigning to an auction house. Depending on what you have you can negotiate the commission price. Mine was easy with heritage - they dropped to 5% sellers fee before getting the coins. This method is not as quick as (1) and does not net as much as (2). But you know when you get the coins. Be aware up front with heritage they might put some of the coins in Sunday and Tuesday auction. For me the coins of mine they put in the auctions did not net as much as the premier auctions. Overall I was very satisfied with the outcome of the heritage auction.

    On a side note - I found (3) to be the most fun. It was great getting in and looking at my totals and watching them go higher almost every day. What was really cool was watching the live auction of some of them on the platinum night - I was happy with the internet bids, but these still got some live bids. That was fun. :)
     
  18. john1942sept

    john1942sept Member

    Mark_h:

    What price coins, say relative to Redbook, did you sell via Heritage? What did they actually sell for? How did you get them down to 5%?
     
  19. john1942sept

    john1942sept Member

    As to LCS, I was offered from $25 to $90 for a 27S Standing Liberty Quarter that a local coin club had graded at F-12 (one of their grading nights with a local NGC representative and two dealers). The dealers were all over the board in grading, but the NGC representative was almost exactly like my biased estimates. I eventually sold it for $120 to an individual; Redbook book is about $130 (if it was graded correctly). This is not really a candidate for Heritage, but shows the danger from LCS. Certified coins are another story and I suspect Heritage needs that for most coins they sell.
     
  20. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    Another option if you have specialised coins - for instance I collect Scottish, you can have a dealer sell them for you at a percentage of the take. I know several British dealers that will do that for you.
     
  21. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    From MY personal experiences... I will not do business with Heritage if I can help it.

    I had a wonderful collection of early US mint and private medals. I took them to a large coin show and sat down to talk to Heritage about consigning them. I was given the ole poo poo treatment where they downplay each item... The person I was talking to said he had a dealer friend who would "take care of me" he called him over... After a little time... He offered me $3000... And the heritage associate told me that was a good deal and I probably wouldn't get much more at auction. Now I was born at night.. But not last night. After a polite decline I subsequently sold 6 pieces to a dealer for $9,400 and consigned the rest to stacks where they brought another $8,500. Mind you... The guy Heritage assured me would "take care of me" offered me $3,000 for all of it.

    I'm not even sure a $40,000 coin would raise their eyebrows. I have never had anything but stellar service and wonderful experiences with stacks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
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