Sleepers

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mr. Coin Lover, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    I sure there has been a thread or two on this in the past, but what do all you consider sleeper coins?
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  3. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    To me, the term "sleeper" means an undervalued coin or series.

    Which has no meaning unless it will be more valuable in the future.

    Which can't happen unless something changes.

    Supply remains constant, so demand must increase for price to increase. Which means something must become more popular.

    This doesn't happen much. Coin collecting isn't a "trendy" thing, though there are a few fads from time to time.

    Here's a possible change : Since the price of early American large cents is sky high, many cannot afford good specimens. As the prices continue to rise, the number of folks shut out increases. It's possible folks will discover half cents, which I feel are under appreciated.

    Good buys can be had in Draped Bust half cents in good shape; good Draped Bust large cents are pretty expensive.

    In addition, good Classic Head large cents are notoriously difficult for two reasons - they were minted for a short time, and the planchet quality was poor. This opens the popularity door for Classic Head half cents, which were minted for a much longer time. For most of those years, the "crappy planchet years" were over. Plenty of good Classic Head half cents around.

    Another reason there tend to be more good half cents : they weren't very popular back then either. They didn't circulate as much, so they didn't get beat down as bad.

    Since there wasn't as much demand, the mint had some stashes of uncirculated half cents, just like they have mountains of Sac dollars today. They mint 'em, nobody wants 'em, unc examples accumulate.

    That's why there are gaps in years for half cents - no business strikes from 1837 until resumption in 1849*. Too much backlog, so they stopped crankin' 'em out.





    * there were proof-only years from 1840 to 1847
  4. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    Funny you mention the half-cents. I was looking at some the other night and I was surprised at the prices for these old and beautiful coins. I really didn't mean trendy, but as you stated an increase in popularity causing more people wanting to own with no increase in supply. I read once the mint has millions of Ike Dollars never relased. I just want to make sure I understood you, you're saying the mint still has old half-cents in their vaults? The other thing is the home grown tomatoes. The tomatoes supermarkets sell today would earn them a tar and feathering when I was a kid.
  5. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    IMO, there is no such thing as a sleeper (i.e. an undervalued coin). Coins are, in most all situations, valued precisely how they should be.

    Now if you consider sleepers as coins that will likely increase in value versus other coins in the future, I would respond that nobody can predict the future accurately and I have no strong opinions one way or the other.
  6. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    I think there are some undervalued coins out there in certain series.
  7. Ed Goldman

    Ed Goldman coin collector

    Lincoln set.
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Using the term is basically an advertising gimmick. That's why you see it used so much in the numismatic press.
  9. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    No. They did in The Olde Days.

    The point was half cents circulated less due to unpopularity. For that reason (and others), there are more specimens of higher-grade half cents.

    For instance, I have a near perfect MS65BN classic head half cent. Bought not too long ago, not too expensive, and readily available.

    Contrast that with Classic Head large cents in MS65. I only found four in Heritage archives, selling for $18k to $69k.
  10. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    Actually I personally have never seen the term used in advertising, only in articles about certain coins in different series that have lower mintages than others, yet are less costly. One of the 1913 Buffalo Nickels (if my memory is corrrect it was a Denver, but can't remember if a type one or two) and for me a '27 Peace Dollar. Another thread I read one of your replies and I guess to you most foreign coins are sleepers in this country. If this is true, what countries coins do you think will be the most popular? I would probably think Great Britan, but that that is only a guess on my part. A set of foreign coins I think are beautiful are the Ukraine Cossack Series.
  11. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD Insert Cool Title Supporter

    There is no way to predict what will become popular in the future. There are too many factors that contribute to it. If we could predict that...we would make a fortune.

    Here's an example. In 1970, a friend of mine almost purchased a 1970 Plymouth 'cuda 426 Hemi 4-speed car in bright green. He ended up not doing it. If he would have known how popular and rare that car would have become, there is no doubt he would have bought it. But, he didn't. Back then, it was just a high performance car...it really wasn't anything amazing. Today...that car is worth well over $100K. Just no way to know. ;)
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You have to be a little bit familiar with the world coinage market to answer that. But those that are already know that Great Britain was quite popular, perhaps even the most popular up until 2 years ago. Then it slipped a little. Right now, it seems that just about everybody is goo-goo crazy for Russian coins. Germany has always been a popular country, but it never even came close to GB or Russia. Poland had some slight popularity for a little while but it seems to have faded. Italy has come to know some notoriety, but it really hasn't caught on.

    Something else you have to consider more than what country is what time frame. For the coinage from certain eras can often be very popular while the coinage of the same country from a different era is not at all.

    I can tell you what countries and eras I choose to collect for myself.

    Spanish colonial - 1538 - 1821

    Low Countries - mid 1300's - late 1800's

    France - mid 1300's - 1920's

    I think all 3 of those have a very bright future ;)
  13. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    Not that I will be buying any, but after reading your reply I would like to look at the French coins say from 1900 through the 1920s. There was so much going on there in the world of art, culture, and the war. It got me wondering if they are very artistic or because of the war there were few minted or the artistic portion fell by the way side. I get a few grandiose ideas at times and I was thinking about doing collections of coins for circulation in the US of the main eras within the 20th Century. The eras I thought were significant consisted of: WWI, Roaring 20s, Great Depression, and WWII. It seems a lot of people do WWII because of its significance and there are a lot of "special coins" that were minted during this period. Other than WWII, have you ever known of someone to do this?
  14. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    I'm no fan of the French, but they do have some cool coins.....
  15. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    Now you have even gotten me more interested. Is there a good webiste I could go to see the coins in the time frame I mentioned?
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You should be able to find some here - France - and you can look at my albums, you'll see a few there.
  17. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around . Supporter


    Also the economy has something to do with it , when the Mark was strong Germans were coming here buying all the good German coins , when the dollar caught up it started going the other way , so I guess Indian and Chinese coins are going to go up as their economies get stronger .

    I had a '69 Kelly green V-28 , would have been worth a lot , but it got stlen and totaled by some idiot I worked with , man I loved that car .
    rzage:cool:


    rzage
  18. Mr. Coin Lover

    Mr. Coin Lover Supporter**

    Thanks, I looked through it briefly and go back and explore more later. Very interesting.
  19. Tater

    Tater Coin Collector

    So what do mean by low countries, Italy, Greece, etc?
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The Low Countries are what we would refer to today as the Netherlands. Only back then the Netherlands didn't exist - at least not until 1579. So they were called the Low Countries.
  21. Victor

    Victor Coin Collector

    Yes and $150,000 is not far fetched for that machine. In 1967 I tested and almost bought a 1967 Hemi GTX but instead purchased a 1967 GTO.
    Why? It was for the same money[$2,500] but the Plymouth was an automatic and the Pontiac was a Hurst 4-speed stick. If I had known then what I know now...
    So in terms of today the Mopar would have been the best move.
    A sleeper in more ways than one! On that note watch the new hemi Challenger..
    With coins the term "sleeper" is a little worn out. Take the 1938-D Walking Liberty. I once was infatuated with that coin. I bought three of them.
    I had a dealer tell me about 2 years ago that he buys every 1938-D he runs into. I still own those 3 walkers but I don't see the price moving much.
    In fact I see them sell on e-Bay for less than what I have invested in mine.
    So I keep holding them waiting for a price jump.
    To me a sleeper is something you buy for a song, you get a fantastic deal.
    Later on you realize a profit either because it becomes more in demand or
    because you bought it so low.
    For example I recently upgraded my 1913-S Barber dime to one that has better eye appeal. I tried selling the old one for greysheet bid. No takers.
    Well what would you do? Lower the price to dump it? Nah not me. I'll hold it and offer it up again later. No discount either.
    A word about Commemeratives: The talk has been that they are stagnant.
    OK so I agree. But I like the early half dollar designs. So I am picking up some at low prices when I see them. Stone Mountain, Pilgrim, Columbian Expo, etc.
    Proof sets, mint sets: More sleepers here. They are so dead my dealer offered me some for $5 each. I picked up about 20 [all different years] sets for $100.
    At $5 a pop I will sit on these. Even if I tear them apart to fill holes in albums I think I am ahead of the game. I got a 1970 mint set for $13.00 on a dealer's bid board. Nobody else bid! Just the 1970D Kennedy is worth the $13.
    Franklins: Have you been watching these move? Common dates I bought for $4 to $5 a couple years ago are now selling on eBay for $7.50 to $10.
    I got a couple 1955 Philly Franklins real cheap 2 years ago.
    Also note the 1955 Roosevelt dime. I have been buying uncs for $3 to $5.
    Sold one for $9 recently no problem.
    Synopsis: What you think may be a sleeper probably is or will be someday in your lifetime. What the heck. Buy it now for chump change if you have a good feeling about it. This is speculation for sure. But you are dealing with small money, what does it hurt?

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