Rising values of counterstamped coins

Thanks for the heads up CheetahCats, I'll have to see if I can get a copy. I've read a lot of Bower's stuff, but I'm not familiar with this one.

 

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As the publisher of three of Dr. Gregory Brunk's books on COUNTERMARKS, I like to think I have some basic knowledge of c/m.

Once countermarked/counterstamped, the piece is no longer a COIN, but a TOKEN. Thus, any photograph should be oriented so the c/m is the primary object. Names or other devices should be level to the viewer, regardless of the coin alignment. This obviously makes reading the now most important device, the countermark, easy. A recent large auction of c/m showed the unmarked coin obverse as the Obverse, when the c/m was on the reverse! I repeat, when a coin is countermarked, the c/m is now the primary device and should be level to the viewer. My rant for the day <grin>.

And, I have a complete list of all the merchant names who have issued c/m (per Brunk's latest book) on my web site. If you have an offstruck partial name, it is easy to search this list. I do have a small number of the Brunk books available.

 

Welcome to C/T Rich, I'm glad you posted. I have a question for you in regard to what's considered the obverse or reverse of a counterstamp. I understand that the obverse is always the side on which the stamp is punched (correct??), but if both sides are stamped, then what? Is the actual obverse of the coin considered the obverse of what now has become a token after the counterstamp is applied, or is it handled differently? I have a number of pieces where both sides are stamped, and have generally considered the obverse the side that displays the most important information (name, company, date etc.), or in some instances, the most information.

 

Countermarks: Obverse and Reverse

what's considered the obverse or reverse of a counterstamp. I understand that the obverse is always the side on which the stamp is punched (correct??), but if both sides are stamped, then what? Is the actual obverse of the coin considered the obverse of what now has become a token after the counterstamp is applied, or is it handled differently? I have a number of pieces where both sides are stamped, and have generally considered the obverse the side that displays the most important information (name, company, date etc.), or in some instances, the most information.

Well, frankly, it is not fixed in stone, if you have a c/m on both sides. Generally Brunk will list the piece under both merchants. Generally I consider the Obv. to be the side with the most info, or the side with the well-known merchant. The Obverse of the TOKEN is now the side with the c/m, regardless of which side of the Coin is the obverse. There is only confusion where there is a c/m on both sides.

 

I think its directly related to informative posts on chat boards.

 

A few years ago, counter stamped coins were being sold as post mint damage...now because of the world wide web and the collaboration of a few individuals, these bygone era coins are becoming a collectible for many.

 

In a similar vein, my most prized coin is a 1832 bust half with "Grafitti" on it. I think it's awesome, but the numismatic community currently considers it as damaged goods.

Too bad for them!

 

Since the experts are here, what do you think of this one:




and the reverse:



any info/value would be appreciated.

FYI: I believe it is an O-103a, which is itself an R-3.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see this counterstamp get $100/$150 (or more) in a good auction like Steve Hayden's Treashunt. I bid strong on at least 3 or 4 lots when his sales come up, and might win one,... if I'm lucky. The prices still surprise me, even on unattributed pieces. Yours, being on an old Bust Half, makes it more valuable. Counterstamps on silver are generally worth more than those on copper, depending on the appeal of the stamp of course. A few counterstamps are known on gold coins, but they're extremely rare ... and worth a ton of money.

I did an image search on the internet for your unusual style of lettering that might help in attributing it, but no luck. If we did know who "Ward" was, I could see you easily getting $200/$300 for it. I like it a lot.

 

Is this the proper presentation? What do you guys think?

 

I think you posted these pics on a different thread. When I looked at them then (without magnification) then appeared to be counterstamped eagles that were common to gunsmiths, lockmakers and the like. Now that I have a better view of them, I'm not sure what they are. The mark in the first pic seems to be an "R" with maybe an "E" to the left of it. The reverse is probably the same. It's too bad the multiple strikes are so weak, I'm not really sure about any of them.

 

Thanks, BRandM, I have to dig out the others.

 

Back in September I posted some results of the counterstamp portion of Steve Hayden's Mail Bid Sale #32. I thought I'd do the same for his latest sale that just closed on December 11th. The average price realized then was $153.00, but this time it jumped to $231.00. Bids on four tokens were rejected for not covering minimum, but the other 19 sold mostly near the high end of the suggested bid range. The four that didn't meet minimum were offered at a fixed price the next day, so I picked up one of them for $50.00 under minimum. The other three are still being offered, but so far are unsold. One surprise was a counterstamp on a gold coin with a suggested bid range of $750.00-$1,000.00 that didn't sell. I believe the top bid for it was $500.00. I was surprised because stamps on Gold coins are extremely rare and should sell relatively easily. I thought the suggested bid range was about right, but no serious bidders showed up. The stamp "T. Berry" is on a 1907-D $5.00 Liberty. The top selling piece was an 1816 Large Cent with the reverse of a 1789-1791 type Peruvian 1-real stamped on it's obverse. Hayden believes it may have been stamped there by counterfeiters testing a counterfeit die. It's from the collection of Dave Bowers, who by the way is (or was) an avid collector of counterstamps.

I bid on seven pieces, and surprisingly was successful on six of them. I got a seventh when I bought the "O. Abbey" counterstamped 1805 Draped Bust Half Dollar. When I get the coins in a few days, I'll be sure to post pics.

Bruce

 

I know that this is a very late response to an old thread but can you please help me out with this piece with counter stamp?


It's an 1834 Peru 8 Reales coin with Counterstamp YII. It's moderately worn but I'm just curious on what its worth considering the counter stamp.

Thanks.

 

I only collect U.S. and Irish counterstamps plus a few from England and frankly don't know a lot about your piece droccu. The best place to find info about value is on eBay. I've certainly seen these and similar ones many times and my feeling is that they're not of great value, but then again I'm not an expert. I believe there are a few members here who are pretty good with these issues so please hang in there and see if someone responds. Sorry I can't help you.

Bruce

 

Thanks Bruce. I hope there are other counterstamp/chop mark collectors in this forum also who can help me out also...

 

That counterstamp would have been used in the Philippines: Its actually listed in Krause too (under Philippines)
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SPAIN-PHILIP...5133976?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3a796a9f98
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SPAIN-PHILIP...4086030?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item43b24b448e
They go for anything from $50-$170 (as you can see)
-Owen

 

That was fast!:thumb: Thanks a lot Owen.

 

Glad someone could help you droccu. We have a lot of great collectors on this site. Looks like you have a nice piece there.

Bruce

 

Thanks a lot Bruce...:thumb: