Republic of China Tang Jiyao Silver Commemorative?

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by theouterlimitz, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. theouterlimitz

    theouterlimitz New Member

    Hello everyone. I hope you all had an awesome Holiday(s). A few days ago I was at my mom's house, and she had some of her antique's and jewelry on her table to take to her store. There was a coin on the table, in a flap, so I picked it up and was like "hey, what the heck is that...why are you selling a coin?" and she was like "well....I don't think it is worth anything your Papa had that for like 6o years..." so I was like "Ok...let me research it and see what the deal is" and that is where I stand. Here is what I do know.

    1. This appears to be an early Republic of China 1916-1917 Tang Jiyao silver commemorative.
    2. It is from the Yunnan province.
    3. They seem to be well desired, especially hot in the Chinese market.
    4. I found a few of these (sold) at a Beijing China auction house for $2-$5K ranging from AU to MS63 (NGC graded).

    Okay. So I've also found one counterfeit copy on feebay for like $40...which you can tell is an obvious copy (from the fake dirt) to the seller calling it a copy. This coin has been in the family for decades.

    Lostdutchman...if you are reading this I called you today to maybe stop by your store to get your thougts on submission. Perhaps you could look at the scans and tell me what you (all) think. I would be happiest camper.

    So here it is.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]So any thoughts on grade, year?, anything about this coin would rock. I know who Tang Jiyao is...and he has a super cool history. He made this coin after he rebelled...also was involved (his brother) in opium smuggling. Drugs are bad....mmm K...but sordid Chinese Warlord Generals that make coins are sweet.

    Thanks!
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  3. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I agree the coin looks good and genuine.

    Not sure where you got those prices though. The 1917 50 cent coins like this are worth $150 to $200 in slabbed AU. One just sold for $230 and change, but that included buyer premium and was slabbed AU-55.
  4. theouterlimitz

    theouterlimitz New Member

    Thank you for your response Numismat. The prices I got were taken from here:

    http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/39147/

    Which is an antiquities and Chinese art dealer. They have many lots of empire-republic Chinese coins. So I scrolled through all the "fat mans" and other coins listed until I found the one I had...and there were several sold. The one on the link provided is MS-63 and recently sold. According to their website they "estimated" that it would sell for 8,000 to 15,000 RMB (Yuan) which is roughly $1,200 to $2,300 US $. Okay. That was their estimate but it has been sold, and that MS63 sold for 51,750 RMB, which is $8,187!!!

    So there are others that sold for quite more, some less, but still...WAY higher than anything I've ever seen. Is an AU worth $250 but an MS63 worth $8K?

    What is going on in the Chinese market?

    Are they artificially inflating their coin values? Is this a fake auction house (they appear to be legit) or what's the deal.

    I'm seeing Chinese coins going for big bucks...even when book values say they are worth $100.

    So perhaps any of you experts can give me your wisdom, so that I may learn.

    Finally...do you recommend getting this graded? If I was to sell...what should I ask?

    And one more. How do you know it is a 1917? Tang Jiyao made coins in 1916 and 1917. I'm not questioning your logic...just curious so I can learn.

    Thanks.
  5. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    There is no actual date on the coin, but all the reference materials date them as 1917.

    I believe that auction is one of those where stuff either sells for unusually high prices, or there is something fishy going on. I've come across their auctions before while researching coins I had, but none of them ever sold anywhere near their prices. And I have a fairly large Chinese customer base. I've wondered if they post crazy final bid prices just to get more consignments.

    When looking at well known international auctions, the prices are in tune with what I mentioned.

    The following coin is the most recent example which has the same grade and similar eye appeal as your coin (auction ended 01/10/12). However, your coin is relatively weakly struck, as is evident in the collar of the portrait and the pom-poms on the flags. : http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3017&lotNo=27647

    You need to sign up to view full size pictures and sale price, but it's completely free and they rarely send you spam e-mail.
  6. theouterlimitz

    theouterlimitz New Member

    Thanks Numismat. You make brilliant sense! I now have good direction and knoweldge.

    Cheers.
  7. manymore

    manymore Chinese Charms

    I was curious as to the dating of this coin so I did a little research.

    According to this Chinese article, the Yunnan branch mint began making the coins in August, 1917.

    However, the "Concise Coin Dictionary" (简明钱币辞典) gives the date of the coin as 1918.

    The Heritage Auction, which Numismat refers to, gives the date as 1917 but the NGC slab identifies the coin as L&M-863.

    "L&M" is the "Illustrated Catalogue of Chinese Gold & Silver Coins" edited by Lin and Ma ("L&M"). Despite the 1917 date on the slab, the Sixth Edition of L&M gives the date of this coin (#863) as 1919.

    So as you can see, there does not seem to be a definitive answer as to when the coin was minted.

    Gary

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