Replace the paper dollar with coin article

I will stop. I do not wish to argue further. You are right about the regs saying only about related to a business, (though that could be subject to "business" interpretation). I stand corrected.

I am a libertarian, and we disagree on the subject of what is acceptable to impose on citizens in the name of "crime prevention". That is the simple crux of the disagreement, and we will not change our minds.

No offense meant, and hope we can agree on numismatic topics.

Chris

 

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The $10,000 reporting requirement is a separate issue from halting issuance of $500 and $1000 bills. I think there is a valid discussion to be had regarding the reporting requirement, but I don't see how not having a $500 bill is somehow a suppression of any freedom.

 

I liked the Jimmy Kimmel quote in there though. It's so true about the distaste Americans have for Congress right now.

 

My only point on that would be why, (when they were worth more), were higher denomination bills ok before electronic transactions could be tracked, but now that the government has the ability to track some transactions, they wish to destroy the higher denomination bills? I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I simply do not see the rationale of why these bills are now unneeded or unwarranted, when they were perfectly fine for 100 years.

As for your point sir about being able to carry around a briefcase full of money, that is the entire point as well. My uncle carried around, like I said, $2000 in a hidden part of his wallet, He had 2 or 3 bills that fit there. Today, I cannot hide $2000 in $100 bills, as its way too bulky. I carry around $500 or so just in case, but if I could I would probably carry more. I simply cannot due to our currency. If I were in Europe I could.

I just never have heard a valid reason why the larger bills had to be actively withdrawn, except for "money laundering". To me that is not an excuse, I would prefer to see stronger penalties for illegal activities than make common citizens be affected. "Crime prevention" is way too broad a reason for limiting citizens, as is "anti-terrorism". I think we see that with the Patriot Act and secret searches and seizures being used 90+% of the time NOT for anti-terrorism, but for whatever they feel like searching.

Chris

 

The large denom bills were halted in 1969, not just recently, with the given rationale being lack of use/demand.

 

A voice crying in the wilderness

I think most sciences use the MKG or CGS system (I assume SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers). Remember the Mars probe that crashed because the manufacturer thought they meant yards when they had the measurements in meters. Sigh, I still think mostly in English units, but we gotta change. BTW is that ounce of gold you want to buy a 28.3 g ounce or a 31.1 g ounce, and while we are at it, is a pound 12 ounces or 16. We gotta change!

 

Have you checked the official specs of all our coinage? All in metric. Believe it of not we "officially" switched to the metric system back in 1866, but never mandated or enforced any conversion to it in general use.

I believe Great Britain is on the metric system as well.

 

Well, so much for the Where's George forums.

They didn't care for my arguments FOR the dollar coin and labeled me as a Troll and deleted all my posts.

http://forums.wheresgeorge.com/showthread.php?t=172071&page=9

What a bunch of dolts. Silly administrator (HANK) starts a thread and expects everybody to go along. Offer some constructive arguments against the idea and zap!

 

If Only You Knew!!

I've followed this thread as I would the comics in my newspaper, laughing hysterically at the biased facetious statements posted as fact. My thoughts definitely have an objective bias based on experiences, closely aligned to yours, while appreciating the positions of others.

My biases are based on the fact that because of past experiences with financial institutions, I generally financially transact strictly with cash, which has caused consternation, and many problems. However, for many normal transactions, cash isn't an acceptable means of monetary exchange. An institutional transfer is required, and if you think that the $10,000 paperwork stipulation was burdensome, talk to an executive bank officer about current reporting requirements for "structuring" and "money laundering", imposed, as stipulated by new federal regulations.

A female associate wanted to purchase a 6 figure retirement home when the federal government offered a grant to first time buyers. Although she had a 401K balance well in excess of her anticipated purchase price, she could not qualify for a loan.

I offered to intercede in acquiring an acceptable property, and supply a mortgage. I found a potential home, arranged for a viewing in spite of her inability to "properly" finance, and negotiated a timely earnest agreement in spite of the realtor requirement that she be "approved" prior to the "Earnest" submission. I presented cash purchase funds, and required that the agent and a notary acknowledge/count the purchase funds to meet their "approval" requirements. Our offer was accepted for a prompt settlement prior to the grant expiration date.

Since the property settlement, and "disbursals" were to be transacted by a "closer", the settlement funds were required to be an institutional draft. I deposited the cash settlement funds in a bank with which I had a 30+ year relationship, expecting to shortly acquire an institutional draft for the funds. The property was expeditiously acquired with the mandated funds.

Shortly after the property closing, I received a call from a female bank employee who spent an extended period of time questioning me about my cash bank transactions. She wanted to know why I often request cash withdrawals less than $5000, make similar cash deposits, and where did I acquire the large cash deposit. I respectfully answered her questions, after which I was told that I was to be reported for "structuring" and "money laundering", as mandated by the new health care legislation. I asked what amounts of cash transacting would initiate reporting, and she said it was confidentially at institutional discretion, but generally any transacting that was "frequent". In my case, averaging once every other week, as I have accounts with multiple banks.

I personally find change to be an irritant as I don't normally wear a belt, and excessive change causes my pants to drop when I jog about during daily activities. The change also flies from my pockets, and gets mixed with my keys, etc.. The change also rolls or drops when being removed from my pocket. I stopped accepting dollars after mistakenly paying same as quarters on multiple occasions. The bills in my clip with license, etc. don't cause similar problems. I find that it really irritates others when I eventually pay for a tank of gasoline with the change I've accumulated.

Having been involved in the chemistry, application equipment design, and testing of proprietary plastic applicated currency, I believe the savings argument to be a "red herring". If one properly investigates, I think it will be determined that others have currently plasticized their frequently handled flexible currency, and realized appreciable savings/longevity.

Just my observations/experiences/biases, which I trust aren't too offensive. :thumb:

 

That's how we treat threadcrapping trolls who don't argue facts, but only personal opinions disguised as facts.

For the record, and if you actually read the entire thread, there are plenty of arguments on both sides... I don't expect everyone to just "go along"

I do, however, expect people to behave in a respectable manner.

 

The fact that the people have a choice and chose the bill is pretty clear, and it's a totally free market choice, as it should be.
Your statement here legitimizes the dollar bill better than any other arguement yet.

 

Threadcrapping Trolls? Those folks over on that forum just could not handle the truth about all the verbose statements presented as fact.

Whose trolling now?

Oh yeah, Welcome to CoinTalk where discussion is actually appreciated.

Is it safe to assume that this is the forum administrator "Hank" that left the foul mouthed response to my inquiry as to why I was deleted?

 

Cash transactions/deposits at or above 10k are a 'red flag' for a closer look by big brother, if they so please, but said transactions are far from illegal or discouraged among the business community. I am a business owner, and I have also been present during cash purchases in full of brand new vehicles. Let me tell you, the car salesman smiles just as big when you pay with cash. The business is saddled by big brother with intrusive paperwork to track the large transaction, but that's it (not that it's right).

Oh, I should mention that with the new healthcare law the $10k limit now just applies to private persons. The new level for businesses is $600! A HUGE headache...

 

Let me get this straight...
For whatever reason you have a boiling hate for dollar bills, but you go to Where's George forums and post?
How is this NOT being a troll?
Just pointing out the obvious.

 

Boiling Hate? Ive never stated that I had a "boiling hate" for dollar bills. I've merely stated that the dollar coin represents a a cost saving to the US Government and in turn the American Taxpayers. I've also stated that its moronic to continue to throw money at producing dollar bills whse life span is measured in months instead of producing coins whose life span is measured in years. How, exactly, is that "boiling hate"?

I've also stated that the American public has not had an "opportunity" to "choose" either the coin or the bill and instead have simply opted for the most convenient form of payment or change.

I'll join ANY forum, regardless of who hosts it and present these very same opinions. If folks want to consider voicing your opinion as being a troll, then I guess that makes all of us trolls.

BTW, here's an ABC poll:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/coins-could-replace-dollar-bills-save-us-5-6-billion/

Cast your vote.

As of 10/26/2011 7:37pm PT, here are the results so far:

 

Btw, welcome Wheresgeorge. I see you are new, and created a profile here probably to respond to a certain issue, but hopefully you may participate in the future.

Chris

 

Thanks. I'll certainly take part in any discussion that involves Where's George?.

So you're stating right here the dollar bill is the most convenient form of payment or change. People are "choosing" between the coin and bill everyday -- they've chosen the bill.

I don't see how forcing everyone to use the coin is any kind of "choice" -- except by members of Congress. The only argument left is the alleged cost savings, which is highly controversial.

As I said above, the thread on WG has plenty of arguments on both sides. The problem with your activity was that you signed up at WG and the forums YESTERDAY -- ONLY to troll this one forum thread. You didn't join the site to track currency or join in any other forum discussions. And even then, your posts were inaccurate and just spinning your personal opinion as facts. They did not contribute constructively to the discussion.

 

I have only made that observation because every thread on this issue you are there and very militant about it.

 

My points have all been posted before so there's really no point in rehashing it with you who has now come over here to do the very thing you've accused me of. Join a forum just to participate in a particular thread. But then, what other reason is there to join a forum if not to participate?

As for the people making a choice? Cast your vote because it looks to me like the people are "choosing" the coin by a 3 to 1 margin.



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/coins-could-replace-dollar-bills-save-us-5-6-billion/

 

Great, I'm sure they'll all put their money where their mouth is and start using dollar coins now?
That's all it would take.
Start using the coins, stop using the bills, and they would stop making them because there would be no demand.
Until then, trying to force that change without giving the people the choice is no good.