Nice Struck through copper filings 82D Lg. Dt. 95% CU LMC

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by silentnviolent, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Found this one last night. I throw all 82s into a pile. The zincs, being less common, I save (not sure why :rollling: ) The others go in the copper pile. Others have said that weighing each individually is too time consuming. I disagree, and so I weigh every one before I even look closer at them. This one weighed over. It was 3.16G, which is still within the allowable limits, I know, but I rarely see them err on the heavy side.

    I saw the shiny line and the green oxidization, and was about to dismiss it as PMD and toss it in the copper pile when I noticed the raised metal behind Lincoln's head. Then I saw that the shinier strip of metal was actally formed into the letter "I" in LIBERTY :eek:

    So then I'm thinking 'struck through wire'.... but after searching images of other cents struck through wire, I noticed that on every example the wire was noticeably thicker. It was also usually made of steel such as one would find on a wire brush. It is usually one straight, uninterrupted line.

    A closer look at mine shows considerably thinner, copper, curved lines that even branch off in places. So I've now come to the final determination that copper filings fell off the die, accumulated during many strikes, and onto this cent, where they were struck into it. They are embedded and are even parts of letters in words, and span most of the entire obverse. Enjoy!

    Attached Files:

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  3. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Value?

    I see some with a tiny bit of wire bristle struck in sell for $50 or so, but the more "foreign material" embedded, the higher the premium. Surely, it needs not be of a different metal content to be considered "foreign material".

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  4. rascal

    rascal Well-Known Member

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news since we are friends. your coin looks like it may have some dried up stuff on it like say maybe glue. look at the shiny line on your coin. this looks like some of the stuff has already come off and left the shiny area where it has been protected by whatever it is. but please remember I am only looking at your photos and not totally sure. Troy
  5. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Def. not glue. Like I said, I thought it was damage, and even tried to pick it off before I noticed the raised portion as it enters Lincoln's hairline at the back of his head. Look closer at the pics... not only is it comprising the right half of "I" in LIBERTY, (yes, it's divided vertically) it also continues beneath the greenish spot to the NE that's green with oxidization.
  6. rascal

    rascal Well-Known Member

    The raised area behind lincoln's head is what told me it was not a strike thru . any struck thru thing will be flush with the surface of the coin. if the raised up area happened at the mint it would have to be something like a die gouge or die break. try using some fingernail polish remover with a Q tip in a inconspicuous area and see if this stuff will soften up. don't feel bad if it is glue. sometimes glue can trick us. Troy
  7. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Clearer photos

    I see now the others weren't as clear as I'd like them to be. I shouldn't be so hasty in my photos.... Hope these help.

    Attached Files:

  8. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I'm having a tough time with the pictures. Most interesting is the I in LIBERTY. This has potential.
  9. rascal

    rascal Well-Known Member

    If it's not something dried up on your coin then I am totally stumped here. It looks like you have a glob of the same stuff around the words IN GOD as well. it those shiny areas on your coin are not sunken in then you definately have a glue coin. If the shiny areas are sunken in then I have never seen anything like this where something that was raised up on a coin could also be sunken in because anything struck into a coin by a die is flush with the surface if retained , then if removed a shallow place is left there.. I know you will get it figured out. Troy
  10. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    The shiny line is mashed flat due to the malleability of CU.... I think it is a retained, or at least a partially retained strike through. I'm trying to get a good group together to send to Mike Diamond, and I think this will be the last, along with my ebay pickup and 2 or 3 others I have already. Just gonna wait out the holiday mail rush before sending them on over. :)
  11. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Excellent...let us know the outcome of this one.
  12. rascal

    rascal Well-Known Member

    a retained struch thru area is easy to identify. they will almost always have a tiny and barely visible sunken in line around the retained struck thru piece. this is because the coin die forces it into the planchet when striking the coin.you can see a retained struck thru coin on this forum by looking for my thread titled quarter struck thru aluminum or it reads something like that.
  13. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Not necessarily, it depends on the nature of what is being struck into the coin. I haven't seen many of such errors, but I have noticed that sometimes the retained strike looks like this:

    Forgive the crude illustration please. I was using MS Paint.

    [​IMG]

    The red area represents the struck in piece. Sometimes, if it's malleable enough, part of it flares out over the indent that the bulk of the fragment makes and gets struck in as a flat "plating" on the surface. This may well be the case on the OP's coin.

    But I do concede that most times there is a faint border around struck in pieces.
  14. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    It is bordered. Enough to interrupt the fingernail. I believe the shiny spots are done in the way your drawing describes. The raised bits are strong enough to peel away my fingernail, and at this point I refuse to risk any further the possibility of picking it off. Keep in mind, this has been floating around for a long time, and perhaps what I see as shiny is so due to a long retained, but recently departed piece of the strike through... This is also very possible, and should be expected if such a thing has indeed circulated for this long. We shall see... I'm thinking early January the shipping systems will have cooled off sufficiently.

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  15. ikandiggit

    ikandiggit Currency Error Collector

    This is really interesting!

    You have the coin in hand and would be able to see details we can't in the pics. But, based on the pics only, could this have been caused by a drop of acid or some other substance that ate away some of the copper? I'm asking this because of the brightness of the line compared to the surrounding surface. The struck through copper fragments I have are the same color as the coin itself.

    Just throwing this out there.
  16. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Exactly, something had been on the surface for years and finally removed exposing the red surface. Looks like and rpm too, maybe. Nice find...
  17. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Yes, I think that if it is not acually the way Numismat illustrated, then part of a retained strike through has somewhat recently fallen off, leaving the redder looking streak. notice that the red streak, as it approaches the back of Lincoln's head, it raises up. This leads me to believe that the raised portions are a continuance of the emedded, shiny metal. I think it is the same obstruction, but where it meets the design elements it was not smashed in. Given the malleability of copper, I believe this is very possible. Also, if there was debris struck into this cent, would it not also be possible that other debris, which had not yet fallen off the die, made possible the raised areas on this cent?
  18. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    I think Rascal's original observation is correct. Your coin is covered by surface contaminants and some has peeled up, revealing brighter copper underneath. If there is a change in topography, it's probably due to chemical etching by the corrosive nature of some of the contaminants.
  19. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    OK, so against my better judgement I used isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip to remove what, if any, glue or sticky substances. I was not suprised when the only parts to come off were some green oxidization spots. here's new pics. I understand an acid would leave an etch mark, but why then does it raise up? I'm still going to send it to you, Mike, because I think you will have a new assessment when you see it in hand. None of the raised parts, which are definately copper and not glue, came off. I just find it too coincidental that the brighter metal meets the raised, extra metal. I also just realized that my magifying glass, that I use for my photos, is now all scuffed up. Guess the kiddo was a little too enthusiastic with it lol! I'll have to get a new one....

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  20. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    Also would like to point out that after removing some junk, none of the newly exposed metal is showing through, bright and red like the disputed area....
  21. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator

    before and after.

    just tried saving a screenshot for the first time... lets see how it works... also rotated upside down images from above.

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