MS-70 Coins. Worth the premium?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by bsowa1029, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. bsowa1029

    bsowa1029 Franklin Half Addict

    I once heard that people should buy coins in the best grades they can afford. That seems like it is the right thing to do. I only have a couple MS70 coins and my total coin collection is fairly small I'd say, since I only seriously started collecting a year ago. Anyways, the reason I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts on MS70's are is because I've been contemplating buying a MS70 2011 silver 10z panda for a few weeks now. Affording it isn't my issue, I just don't know if its worth spending the $95+. So.... I would appreciate any input that anyone could give me.
    Also this is my first post here on coin talk. Just registered a few minutes ago!!
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  3. bsowa1029

    bsowa1029 Franklin Half Addict

  4. JJK78

    JJK78 Member

    Greetings bsowa and welcome to Cointalk! You will certainly get a lot of different answers on this. Paying the premium for a ms70 in the long run I think will be worth it, if you buy an ms69 you can probably get it at a price closer to spot, but in the long run that is what it will always be worth. I don't know the mintages for the Panda's but if they are anything close to the mintages for the 2010/2011 Silver American Eagles then there will probably not be much of a premium in the future. I figure if I'm not buying them by the roll though I spend the extra and get a 70.
  5. redwin117

    redwin117 Junior Member

    Welcome to Coin Talk,
    In my opinion I will buy only MS69 much more a lot cheaper than MS 70.
    Tha't all..
  6. Coinut

    Coinut New Member

    The only time I concern myself with a graded coin is when the price is over $200 and is older than 1900, except when it is a key or a known target for counterfeiting. Modern coins just seem like a waste to spend MS/PF70 prices on unless you are specifically gunning for an all 70 set or something like that. To my eye a 69 looks just fine, but as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
  7. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member Supporter

    As you have already found out, modern 70's bsowa1088 are a hot topic. You will likely find multiple answers and justification to your question. I have my own opinion, but that doesn't matter, what matters is what you wish. DO you wish to collect the very best example you can find of a coin, or are you price sensitive and wish an extremely nice coin for about half the price, (in this instance)? There is no wrong answer sir, simply a choice of how you wish to collect.

    Welcome!

    Chris
  8. Numismania

    Numismania You hockey puck!!

    MS69 and MS70 is the prevelant grade for NCLT coins, and very very few circulating coinage series garner those grades (yeah, there are 69's, but in the grand scheme of things, these grades are for NCLT..specially prepared planchets, specially struck...for collecting for sheer collecting of a series, 69 is the grade to go. Very few people can tell the difference. Even the TPG's...if you cracked a 70, sent it in raw, might very well come back a 69. 70 does NOT mean 'perfect' in the literal sense of the word.

    Those that are playing the registry set game, THEY just HAVE to have 70's. One other reason is for resale down the line. 70's will always bring more money....then, throw in 'First Strike' or 'Early Release' with the 70 grade, and prices balloon. Sure, buy the best grade you can afford, but then again, buy what you like. A nice, uniform set of ASE's in MS69 can look every bit as nice as a set of 70's...and some of those 69's could regrade 70, one never knows.
  9. Numismania

    Numismania You hockey puck!!

    I must also ask....what grading service is this Panda in? $95 sounds awfully cheap for a Panda graded by PCGS or NGC.
  10. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    My thinking is " You get what you pay for it". Meaning that MS-70 grade will be there forever and if it is perfect to your
    high magnification inspection then you got what you paid for it. Be proud to be one of the few with anything in that grade.
  11. Welcome to CT! The silver Pandas are a nice low mintage bullion series to collect/stack. I decided to buy them raw and as close to spot as possible. They look just as nice and it saves me a lot of money. TC
  12. redwin117

    redwin117 Junior Member

    Agreed! one thing more if you intend to keep the coin for over 10 years you will see the big differences the coin surface is not the same you bought it started to have a toned or the color of the coin luster is not the same as ten years ago. Only the number of MS 70 stay on that holder but the coin I think is not MS 70 anymore...I do have some MS 70 Ten years ago. But the coin inside is not MS 70 anymore because of the toning of the coin... grrr...
  13. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I don't think anybody can tell you for certain whether or not it will be worth it because it depends on attitudes of collectors in the future. Most collectors will tell you to buy the coin, not the plastic. And the difference between a 69 and 70 is so small that many say it doesn't exist. So I prefer to buy MS69 and 68 graded coins which are very high quality and can often be obtained for little or no premium over raw coins. However, something like a Panda may very well be worth the premium.
  14. treehugger

    treehugger Well-Known Member

    As TC said, I wouldn't be real hot to trot to purchase a graded Panda. I own a number of them raw and, if you do also, you will realize they are very high quality and look very, very good even in a raw state. Unlike some of the crappy, milk-spotted bullion produced by the U. S., Canadian and Mexican mints, the Chinese mint strikes high-quality coins. So, if you are not a person who has an ego that needs to be satisfied or needs to have someone else's subjective opinion of how nice a coin is, why pay over twice the price of a raw coin for a modern bullion coin? Save the grading for the types of coins for which grading truly makes a difference.

    Another marketing ploy to be aware of is "first strike". This is a fool's game. Even the various mints cannot tell you with certitude when a coin was actually struck relative to other coins of the same mintage. Just because a coin was sent to PCGS or NGC early on does not mean it was actually produced early on. Dies are changed as they become less sharp. Would you rather have the last strike of die #1 or the first strike of die #4? Theoretically, the former is more appropriately termed "first strike", but the latter will give you a more well-struck coin.

    NGC has had the integrity to drop the "first strike" designation and replace it with "early releases". PCGS continues to use the "first strike" marketing gimmick.

    When the dust settles, a graded coin will typically cost more than a raw coin, sometimes much more. If you decide to sell the coin sometime in the future, it will typically yield you a higher price also. If you are purchasing a coin for your own enjoyment and plan on keepting it, I think it makes more sense to buy a good-quality raw coin, such as a Panda. When a person does this, rather than, in some cases, over double-paying for a graded coin, it allows them to acquire many more coins to enjoy.
  15. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    Like was mentioned, nearly all ASE's are MS 69-70. Even if just 10% are 70's (and I have to believe it's far more than that), it seems silly to pay any premium for a coin that millions grade at. Now, if we're talking any 19th century coin, by all means, the premium is probably worth it as you probably won't have the opportunity again in a lifetime.
    Guy
  16. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    The really low mintage moderns are probably worth the premium; and the pops. for PCGS are less than NGC "70"'s. I would say check the population figures, both mintage and certifieds to know whether the MS/PR70 is worth a significant premium. And as always, be ready to walk away from overpriced deals, with alacrity.
  17. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Save your money on MS/PR 70 premiums as they are overrated.

    Bullion coins can be had for reasonable prices over melt, as in the long run, you're getting a 1 oz. bullion coin.
  18. InfleXion

    InfleXion Silver Bug

    My sentiments as well. An ounce of silver is an ounce of silver. The only graded coins I have are ones I got for barely over the price of a non-graded coin. If I were going to purchase graded coins it would be just to flip them for a profit, not for stacking over the longterm.
  19. bsowa1029

    bsowa1029 Franklin Half Addict

    The panda is graded by NGC. It's listed on a website called mintproducts.com which, from just browsing the site a few times, I believe has of the best prices out there.
  20. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I have purchased many times from mintproducts.com. They sell pretty high quality stuff for good prices. But one thing you should be aware of is that they are very slow in delivery. This bothers some people.

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