Buy Ancients in Plastic Holders

An observation and not a criticism of any sort....
Every good coin dealer had to start dealing when they had less knowledge than they do now...in fact every new coin held and examined means they have that much more experience than they did moments before. Mistakes to a certain degree help with the learning process, everyone gets caught out from time to time. So when can a dealer start being a dealer?
I believe its when they have something to sell, which they, in their hearts firmly believe and taking into account all the circumstances, know to be genuine and are prepared to unconditionally accept the return of said item.......for a full refund and where appropriate apology if they are proved to be wrong. I think that as long as a dealer offers an unconditional guarantee to refund in the event the coin is proved or even suspected to be fake than thats ok. Of course its up to the individual to choose their supplier, but when buyers such as Doug and Martin (no offense to other knowledgible collectors here) state they would rather put their trust in dealers who know more than them, I think that they must be limited to a few dealers on Vcoins for absolute assurance and have to take their chance and use their experienced eyes with the others, because I can name (but wont), many dealers with many many years less experience than them both.
I sell, I know a bit.........but would never be dishonest in any coin sale......we have to start somewhere.

 

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Is this the one Frank Robinson had on his bargain list a few years ago Doug? If it is, I bought it. Let me know if you ever want to borrow it for something.

 

hey, what did coinweek say to your email?

 

No one here will laugh at you, and neither should they. There is no price category that makes any ancient collector "better" than another. Each of us has a price bracket they can afford, but it is love of the hobby and pursuit of knowledge that makes us collectors, not our pocketbook. I will never make fun of someone who can only afford $30 coins, and hope others would not make fun of what my budget allows.

You are in a safe place man, feel free to be yourself and have some fun. No dumb questions, no "bad" coins, just fellowship and the joys of ancient coin collecting.

 

No response.

 

hmm, lets give it a few more days, shall we?

 

Hi fellas ... eh-heh-heh ...

Ummm curious? ... when I first started collecting ancients (back in the early CCF daze) I bought these "4" slabbed coins ... sadly, I paid $50 each for these babies (well, I paid $200 for all 4 as a package) => I wouldn't probably spend that much nowadays and might not even bother buying any of them (no animals), but they were in slabs and I was fresh outta the modern coin collection mode, so I snatched them up thinking that slabs were golden!! (yah, you awesome dudes whacked me down pretty quickly where slabs are concerned => thanks for that)

Question => ummm, is this even a legitimate company? (NNC??)

Thanks







Oh, and as you all know => these babies were quickly released from their plastic prisons!!

 

ahahaha ...

=> yah, I figured as much ...

=> Thank God I decided to join a coin chat-room (or two) .... otherwise a dude could spend a whole lotta cash chasing his tail and collecting crap, eh?

I guess that's me sayin' "Thanks Gang" ... I appreciate you guys showing me the ropes!! (Doug, Bing, DVC, Batman & others) ...

cheers

 

Perhaps YOC misunderstood my position. I buy many coins from sources that know little or nothing but not coins that I can not afford to 'eat' if I am wrong in my judgement of the coin and/or the seller. For example, I would like to own an Eastern mint aureus of Septimius Severus. I would not buy that coin from YOC unless we had a prior agreement about it clearing my showing it to a couple people. The only dealers that come to mind whose opinions I would place above mine on the matter would be Barry Murphy and Harlan Berk (because he employs Curtis Clay). Barry recently sold one for something over $38,000 (it was too nice - I need one with a hole or two and a lot of wear). I would like to own a Septimius Severus provincial with the Noah's Ark reverse. I would not buy it from anyone I could afford to buy it from so I will never fill that want. Would I buy a denarius of Caligula from a fuzzy photo on eBay from a dealer in Eastern Europe? What do you think? Certainly dealers have to start somewhere but I do admit preference for people who became dealers after collecting for several years and being employed by a 'name' dealer. May 2 I will go to a coin show which will have 3-6 ancient sellers. One or two will be of a class that I am confident I will see a fake in their stock. One or two will be of a class that I will be surprised to see anything questionable. What makes the show a winner or a loser will be the surprises that turn up in either stock but you can bet that the bulk of my buys, and anything at all expensive, will come from the ones I know and trust. They will have more I want than I can afford so a coin really has to be special to select it over something I also like that carries less risk.

 

well, I've enjoyed reading and lurking on this thread. some thoughts..



I also purchased a slabbed coin when I first started also, but as a gift for my uncle. it was a little rough LRB coin, but wasn't that much.

i would purchased a slabbed ancient coin now, if the price was the same as what i would pay outside of the slab.

the last coin show i went to, a guy had some slabbed ancients..when he figured out i was an ancient collector, he said "oh, you probably don't want those do you..here are my non-slabbed coin." pulled out another box he had behind the counter, found a couple nice denari.

was also surprised by "stay away from the internet" comment. for the low intensity amateur collector like myself, it's been a godsend. wouldn't have got past a few coins without finding some forums and some friendly, knowledgably folks to help me and share coins with. I'm much more nervous about buying coins at a show where i can't get online and research a coin, or shoot it buy some of you folks if I'm uncertain about it.

 

I'm have the same concern as I plan on attending my first coin show this summer (well, the first one as an adult who is actually interested in coins). Typically when I find a coin of interest I hit all the usual comp sources to help with the purchase/bid decision.

I sure hope that convention center has wi-fi!

 

Love those coins in the first vid not so much the guys fingers though

 

I just wanted to say that although David Vagi is more than a little biased in his suggestions to use NGC in these videos, he is really great at what he does. I've been next to him multiple times at dealer's tables and have observed him picking through their inventory and tastefully pointing out what coins are fake. He does this for everyone: even dealers who don't have a single slabbed coin.

As much as I disagree with their 1% fee for expensive ancients, many of their grades, and the inconvenience of slabs, these are decisions which often take place at a higher pay grade than David himself. He's spent literally hours talking with me about coins and a myriad of other topics and I have a massive amount of respect for him, and based on how some auction houses describe coins ("an absolutely invisible mark" when the coin is deeply gashed, nearly cut in half) I think NGC does help level the playing field to a large extent for the novice collector or those who aren't able to attend an auction in person.

They're definitely not legitimate, but it looks like they're better at ancients than US coins at least! I've seen some astoundingly badly graded US coins from them.

They usually do, although sometimes with poor reception deep in the hall itself (the Donald E Stephens center usually has someone sponsor the Wifi so it's free, but I've rarely had reception anywhere past the first couple rows of tables).

Dealers will often put coins on hold for you for an hour or so, if you need to think about them, but it's probably worth getting a wantlist together and finding what prices you'd want to pay upfront. Some dealers will be exorbitant and others will be extremely reasonable at shows. I haven't had any problems with authenticity but you can always buy a coin from a dealer, and ask someone else and if they think it's fake, any legitimate dealer will take it back.

 

I feel like that could get awkward if the dealer didn't know who David Vagi was. I wonder if he has been noticed as 'that guy from that one pawn stars episode' yet.

 

1. Just don't abuse this one. Dealers are at a show to sell coins so any coin you reserve but don't buy might have sold. I have been sitting at a table next to a collector who had set aside three coins but was not sure if he wanted them. After a half hour of thinking about it, he put two back. I immediately pounced on one of them.

2. That is a fact! Some dealers go to shows with no intention of selling coins but just to buy and trade back an forth with other dealers. Some sit there through the show and wonder why no one looks twice at their coins. I am unclear how they make a living at this but I am not a dealer.

3. At my last show I did this but felt very guilty. I was 99% sure a certain coin was fake and told the dealer who was uncertain. I suggested he show the coin to a specific other dealer who was a specialist in that type of coin. I then offered to do the leg work (because I wanted to hear the result) and was told that the coin was fake. What I had done in fact was ask a dealer to perform a free service for his competition and I did not buy anything from him at that show (he had nothing I wanted). I feel that I wasted a favor on that matter and will not be doing that again anytime soon.

 

This may be one area in which NGC grading can be valuable to non-expert collectors. I'm appalled at the bizarrely incorrect descriptions that many reputable auction houses place on their coins. For example, at the recent Heritage auction the following coin was described as having "...untouched surfaces."



Even from the Internet and catalog pictures, I could tell this coin had been tooled, and I'm certainly no expert in that area. When I viewed this coin in person, I was struck dumbfounded by the willingness of Heritage to overlook the obvious tooling in the obverse legend, laurel wreath, and some minor tooling on the reverse. My dealer agreed completely. While I wanted this coin as an upgrade to my current one, I decided not to bid on it and it still sold for $26K (not including buyer's fees). If it truly had "untouched surfaces" it would have been a bargain at $26K, but whoever paid this amount for this coin cannot have been a knowledgeable collector.

I find it reprehensible that high-profile, supposedly expert auction houses are purposely overlooking obvious flaws and tooling. Maybe NGC can help rectify this problem.

 

Heritage is on a roll. I bought this crispina from a dealer who said he bought the lot from HA, when the coin arrived it was filed and white metal showed, so needless to say it went back. I asked the dealer if others had it and he said they did have files and white metal.

I didnt find any fakes in the reports.

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=231415&lotNo=62169

Sure doesnt seem like heritages auction experts arent too smart, especially with white metal so obvious on the edge.

 

Is tha Postumus one struck under Aureolus? the pics are not so good steve, if so its a good price....

 

thanks ... ummm, I dunno?

... sorry ...

Ummm, but at the time a few folks suggested that T-bone Gallus was also an okay price ...