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02-09-2010, 10:31 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
| NY Regulatory Countermark
Hi Guys!
Iīve recently bought this coin and I have been researching about it. Itīs a regulatory (I think thatīs the word) NY countermark by John Burger. Itīs similar in sense to the Brasher countermarks, which are a little scarcer than this one.
The stylized B is not a problem, but I am still intrigued by the TP (B ?) hallmark in the back of the plug. Does anyone have any idea of what it is?  
(the coin is on the way, and due to Brazilian inefficient postal services, it might arrive with some considerable delay, though send in "ultra" express mail - should have arrived yesterday  )
All the best!
Al Paashaus
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02-09-2010, 10:56 AM
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#2 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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Al:
Very neat, I'll check and see if I can find anything.
What metal is that?
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02-09-2010, 11:00 AM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
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The host is a gold 6400 reis from Brazil, Rio Mint, 1757, clipped to reach the weight of about 13 grams, the equivalent by the end of the 18th century to 8 dollars.
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02-09-2010, 11:13 AM
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#4 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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I checked Breen, no mention.
Also: Rulau, but he says the countermark is JB.
Nothing yet on the TP on the reverse.
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02-09-2010, 11:14 AM
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#5 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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looking again:
The mark is JB.
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02-09-2010, 11:44 AM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
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You mean mine is JB?
As I mentioned, I still donīt have it here with me, but itīs just a matter of a couple of days until it arrives. From the pictures I see a clear "T" and I am still doubtfull on the second letter, if it is a "P" or a "B".
If itīs "TB", the idea of Thomas Burger, Johnīs son, which was also a silversmith in NY, would fit. I am still not very sure on this "thesis" but I have found these Thomas Burger Hallmarks online:  
Last edited by albertopaashaus; 02-09-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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02-09-2010, 11:46 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
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And thanks, Treashunt, for all important information. I do appreciate it, as my library on US coins is limited (only two The Numismatist, hahahaha!)
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02-09-2010, 12:05 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | exsisto magister
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,551
My Mood:  |
I wish I could help you... but I think it's a really interesting piece.
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02-09-2010, 03:58 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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Looking at Rulau's Standard Catalogue of US Tokens 1700-1900 it seems like the JB listed, I imagine it is a stylized initials (J & B close together).
As for the TP v TB, more to follow as soon as I have time.
Veddy interesting.
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02-09-2010, 03:59 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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No Thomas Burger listed in Rulau.
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02-09-2010, 04:04 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Online Dealer of Mpc
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,193
My Mood:  | Very nice!! | 
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02-10-2010, 05:44 AM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
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I have found something (I do love this coin, it has made go through a lot of reseach!)
TP stands for Thomas Pons, from Boston, a regulator from 1789-1804.
I could not find another exemple for TP but I have managed to get Ponsīs another mark and the letter types are very similar to the ones on my coin.  | |
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02-10-2010, 08:10 AM
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#13 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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This is an interesting piece, I'll try to look at some more references.
Good luck!
Okay, I have to ask, did you cherrypick this?
or was it listed with mention of the countermarks?
I am also dieing to ask: How much was it?
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02-10-2010, 08:15 AM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brazil
Posts: 14
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Totally Cherrypicked! But it seems to fit better than Thomas Burger. When I discovered the name Thomas Pons, I just had to google it with some word combinations and then I found some more info.
The price? I am totally a fan of "buy the book before the coin". I have wrote a testimony of this numismatic mantra for the E-sylum as I also collect books on Brazilian Numismatics (more than 800 volumes and over a 1000 titles only on this theme). While I was searching the net for Brazilian coins, I stumbled over this little baby for a very kind price (delayed X-mas miracle). The price was ... a secret : ) (hope you donīt mind!)
All the best!
Al Paashaus
Last edited by albertopaashaus; 02-10-2010 at 08:19 AM.
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02-10-2010, 08:28 AM
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#15 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,718
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ah, nice pick up.
I also collect books, in case you don't know.
altho 800 books on Brazil, that is excellent.
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