sjnebay

Lately I've noticed that many of the posts, including my own, have drifted toward a "value"-centered interest in coin collection. My philosophy is morphing back to what it was when I started collecting coins. That philosphy is collecting good-looking coins that make a good-looking set. The "grade" only matters for the amount of time it takes to complete a transaction, in order to determine what you want to pay for it. Even then, if the coin looks good to you, and you are willing to pay what the seller wants, what does the value matter? What is your purpose in collecting coins? If it is for investment, you should be paying a professional to handle your portfolio of rarities. That is, unless you are an expert in market trends. If it is for personal enjoyment, then NGC, PCGS, gradeflation, value, and whether or not to pop open a roll do not matter one iota!

I'm no longer concerned about the NGC or PCGS grade of a coin. In fact, I no longer bother with slabbed coins at all. I made the mistake of getting my Franklin set slabbed. They are all MS-64 and above; mostly FBL and I don't like the way it "looks" at all, although it is well-protected in those plastic cases. The point is, the coins would look much better if displayed in something like Airtites or Kointains and diplayed in a velvet-padded showcase.

I have a complete collection of ASEs in a Dansco Album that is eye-popping.
In summary, ask yourself, "Why am I collecting coins?" Find a dealer that you trust, who fits in with your purpose. Believe me -- your hobby will take on a whole new dimension of enjoyment.

Cloudsweeper99

There is a lot of merit in what you say. Here is the other side. I try to practice a value-centered approach to collecting. It's sort of a 2/3 investor and 1/3 collector approach [I'm either a chicken-collector or a bullion investor on steroids, I don't know which]. If it was 100% for investment, I'd probably just buy a bunch of bullion coins and be done with it. But I appreciate the history, art and fun aspect too much to do that. At the same time, I want to leave something behind that both has value and would be easy to liquidate at close to market prices by my kids without the need for them to become experts -- and hopefully at a profit if I correctly identify the bargains out there. Regarding the use of a "professional," I would no more hire a professional to collect coins for me than I would hire a local pro to go out and play golf for me. Hire someone to take care of your hobby? I can't relate. Anyway, many people are still the do-it-yourself type. I buy stocks, and would never buy a mutual fund -- even if someone could prove to me that the mutual fund would outperform, which they can't. Collecting is a lot of fun, even when a big part of the goal is profit. At the same time, I fully recognize that I'm in the bottom 10% of knowledgeable collectors [maybe bottom 1% around here], and freely admit that you are a better collector than I am.

sjnebay

Good points Cloudsweeper. Your interest in numismatics is different than mine. I just think that some people get wrapped up in values and grades, while forgetting about why they started collecting in the first place. If a person's purpose in collecting is like yours, then obviously they should be concerned about value. I think that some people feel they can't be an "expert" numismatist without being an expert in values and grading, and that just isn't the case. I'll bet that some of the most impressive (and very valuable) collections were put together without regard to value; simply because the coins looked good. As an example: suppose someone started a collection in 1986 of proof ASEs. Collecting for value probably wouldn't have been a good reason to do so. The coin (yes I consider it a coin) looks really great, but it is a modern and chances of it rising in price are slim. Suppose that same person continues collecting every year, including the 1995 proof set in order to have a complete collection of all varieties and mint marks. Low and behold, they now have a coin worth over $3500 (1995-W) and their complete set is quite valuable!

I guess my purpose in the post, what to remind folks that there are reasons to collect, other than value and investment.

BTW- Good luck with your stock. I bought stock once and it went in the toilet the next week. After 2 years, its finally back to what I paid for it.

GDJMSP

This is quite true and the wisest comment made. It is also the reply most frequently given on this forum when ever some asks about "investing in coins".

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mmarotta

Well, this is the "US Coins Forum." Greysheet, Red Book, Coin Prices, Coin Values, it is hard to get away from the buying and selling -- and that is fine. I often tout the fact that we buy and sell money for a hobby. We are arch capitalists.

Much of U.S. numismatics does not appear in the pricing tables. Collectors who are members of Early American Coppers, Inc. know the term "scudsy" to describe surface porosity -- which, by the way, does not affect the technical grade. You do not see "scudsy" in the price guides.

The Red Book only gives a nod to Hard Times Tokens and Civil War Tokens, though mentioning them at all does in fact validate them as "mainstream" US coin topics. Despite the nice coverage given to Colonials in the Red Book, the Colonial collectors will tell you that it does not scratch the surface. (Ouch! ) Colonial paper, US paper in general, obsoletes, and stock certificates are just some of the many areas of US numismatic collecting that are not readily apparent to many active collectors of "U.S. coins."

Try www.uspatterns.com if you want to see some of the "Art" in collecting U.S. coins.

If you want to see some nice U.S. paper money, click here and then click Next... Next...:

http://www.harrybassfoundation.org/objects.asp?id=5001

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SuperDave

I don't see the appreciation of coins as art, and the sensible application of standard business practice, as mutually exclusive concepts.

Personally, I'm back into coin collecting because of the heartbreaking beauty of a Morgan dollar I held in my hand last year. It was not an economic decision, but an emotional one based on the desire to surround myself with more things as visually appealing as the coin which started it all. Having said that, I only purchase coins which can be had for less than what I objectively determine to be their true, achievable value.

Midas

I can honestly say that the reason I got into collecting coins is because I found that a "cent could be worth more than a cent". As a young kid, I was amazed as I looked up values in the Red Book thinking that 1909S-VDB in BU condition is actually worth $550 dollars (we are taking 35 years ago)!! That was truly amazing.

It wasn't tell years later that I come to appreciate many of our nation's coins for the artistry and beauty (see my avatar above). To me, that was just icing on the cake which made coin collecting more attractive than the raw value of each coin.

But I honestly can tell you that filling a certain open "slot", with a certain mintage production, with a certain historical year, and with a certain value attached based on the aforementioned is what makes collecting coins interesting to me. The artistry and designs are my bonus...that is, to have something that is both beautiful and valuable.

Art

I can certainly agree with most of the points made here. I always concentrate on the "Art" in coin collecting.

;-)

Steve E

I have always collected just for the fun of it and the fact that I could actually own really cool-looking old coins! When I started, I really never cared much about the future value of my collection. I knew it was worth more than I paid but not much. Over the years I have picked up several investment pieces but I still just consider it a fun hobby and enjoy buying whatever "catches my eye" no matter how common or rare. I have not and never will sell any of my coins so the investment part doesn't really matter to me. I'll have all the fun and I'll let my son worry about the investment value when he inherits the collection.

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fjblair

As a newcomer to the game, I care much more about getting the coins I want and can afford rather than how much of a bargain or great investment it is. I realize my perspective might change as I learn more, but I started collecting coins because I like them, not because I want to maximize my return on investment or get the best deal possible.

On some coin purchases I know I have paid more than than whatever the sheet or book says market value may be. I don't care. I can collect coins or I can fret over spending a few dollars more than someone else may pay. I do research what a given coin's value is but if the coin suits my taste and it is reasonably close to market value, I will probably buy it.

That being said, the appreciation/value aspect of coin collecting is firmly planted in the back of my mind somewhere. But when I look at my coins or show them to friends I'm thinking/talking about the coins and not the financials.

Just another opinion.

FB

Conder101

< I want to leave something behind that both has value and would be easy to liquidate at close to market prices by my kids without the need for them to become experts -- and hopefully at a profit if I correctly identify the bargains out there. >
Kind of hard for them NOT to make a profit. After all, what have they got in them? (What YOU have in them is immaterial, you're gone and YOU aren't getting anything out of them.)

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Danr

Grade (especially unc grades) are really based on the aesthetics of the coin. Luster, bag-mark free surfaces, eye appeal, and strike are wonderful criteria to judge the real beauty of the coin. As for circ coins, the amount of wear may be overvalued as the sole criteria for grading problem free coins. other elements of the visual appeal of the coin should be given greater value. I really value beauty in my coin collection (slabbed and raw coins). Basically I buy coins that appeal to my sence of beauty and the slabs make me comfortable dropping a few bucks.

Caz

Being an artist that is what led me to collecting, I like the idea of investing however I'm not going to get rich of buying that is for sure so I buy what I like for looks unless I see a steal but if it just some guy I probably would tell them what they have. Anyway American money has hit the john, I do like the new buffalo nickel however the mint seems to like the monticello and whats up with the dime are we going for a record? I guess when politics play a deal in money you get a level of capitalism and they probably think boring us with these designs will keep us from keeping the coins ( which mostly works for me unless a few mintage and errors ). Didn't Washington say he didn't want his face on US currency anyway?