zekeguzz

I just purchased a mint set which I needed on ebay for $15.05+ shipping.
The seller used the words "FIRST STRIKE" in his description. This didn't influence me one bit but irked me because the mint has no "FRIST STRIKE" program and/or process which exactly keeps track of which coin/s are the first strike coin/s. Sent the seller a message asking him why he used this term. He said some refer to this term because that is what they are when they went on sale on the first day. NOT, NOT, NOT. I informed him that this was misleading and suggested "FIRST DAY ISSUE" would be more appropriate. OPIONS PLEASE.

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GDJMSP

I think what NGC uses now is more accurate - Early Release - meaning a certain group of coins are among the first issued.

First strike is a very misleading term anyway, and often is not what most people think of when they use the term. First strikes often look like crap because the with first coins struck the press may need adjusted thus the coin is not even close to being fully struck. Sometimes it has hardly any detail at all. These are the real first strikes, but they are called trial strikes or test strikes.

It is only after the press has been adjusted, i's dotted and t's crossed, that minting begins in earnest. And even once that is done, every time a die is replaced, which can be several times a day, it happens all over again.

The coins that look the nicest are usually after the first dozen, maybe even 20 or 30, coins have been struck with new dies. So it's not first strikes you'd want anyway if you wanted the best.

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boxerchip

the first coins are the most frosty though right.... fresh dies or something? Assuming they are sent out in order that is

Mark Feld

A number of years ago, certain grading companies began using the "first strike" designation on some modern coins, even though the designation had little, if anything to do with when the coins were actually struck. In essence, they took a long standing numismatic term ("first strike") and, in misleading fashion, changed it's meaning, for marketing purposes.

Personally, I think it was a terrible thing to do. I have spoken out publicly on that subject on a number of occasions, and was booted from the PCGS forums about 3 years ago, as a result.

chip

Sheeesh, sort of an extreme reaction to an informed opinion, you might have struck someones last nerve.

See here that is a problem with some marketting fads, it ropes in some people who take it on faith, and when the fad fades they are often disillusioned and then might quit the hobby, thinking what a bunch of ripoffs and con men.

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CamaroDMD

Wasn't there some legal issue with the "First Strike" title and one of the companies had to stop using it? I remember people paying crazy premiums for coins with this designation when it meant absolutely nothing.

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Mark Feld

I think that NGC and PCGS were both sued and that NGC settled, but that PCGS did not. I am not certain of that, however.

ldhair

Changing the meaning or the name of a term is just crazy.
It creates confusion with both the new and the old to the hobby.
From a business standpoint, they make money from creating that confusion.

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Just Carl

If you really think about it there can only be ONE FIRST STRIKE coin. After that the next one is a second strike, then third, etc. Also, this would mean the Mint would have to actually have to make only ONE coin for the first time to make it the first strike coin. Now imagine the Mint stopping everthing to make sure that no other coin gets mixed up with that FIRST STRIK coin. Ever wonder why there are so many FIRST STRIKE coins out there if that were true? About the same realistic statement as UNSEARCHED COINS on ebay.
I've always said why worry about the first strike anyway. If the mint makes zillions of those coins, a first one is just one of zillions. NOW it's the last strike that is important for now you may know that there are only a few thousand or even less made. So a last strike is more important.

HULL COINS

Also, FIRST STRIKE can only be used on graded coins. So, it is silly to say that they are FIRST STRIKE. and as stated previously they MIGHT have been some of the first issued. It is just a term to help sell. I will buy stuff knowing that it was represented incorrectly. For example I bought a Common Date Walker 1942 I think and the description said MS 1942 Original Omaha Bank Hoard. Well the picture was of a maybe VG coin so it wasn't bad for $7.00

dreamer94

NGC was sued in 2006 and lost, agreeing to stop using the meaningless and misleading "First Strike" designation. They replaced it with the equally meaningless "Early Releases" designation. PCGS was also sued, but reached a secret settlement. PCGS continues to use the deceptive "First Strikes" designation on their labels.

"Early Releases" command a premium but it makes no sense because coins shipped on the first day weren't necessarily the first to be made and aren't different in any way from those released on any other day.

I think the coin collecting community should refuse to have anything to do with either designation.

dreamer94

But they are not sent out in that order. The US Mint has repeatedly stated that they do not keep track of the order in which coins are struck from dies. As dies are periodically replaced, there are many coins struck from new dies and they are as likely to be late in the production run as at the beginning.

GDJMSP

You have to be more specific about the exact coins you are talking about. And, you have to consider the manufacturing process itself. Business strikes for example are made on presses that have 4 sets of dies in them at a time. These presses turn out 1,000 coins per minute. Now do the math, that means that in a 24 hour period that 1 press can turn out 1,440,000 coins in 1 day.

Depending on the coin being struck a set of dies may only last for 150,000 coins or it may last for over a million. So you could have as many as 40 dies being used on a single press in 1 day. And, dies are not changed in pairs, they are changed as they wear out. So you could have a worn obv and new rev being used together.

Now consider the other aspects of the minting process. As the coins are struck they are ejected from the presses into a huge hopper that can contain thousands and thousands of those coins. So in 1 hopper load you might have coins struck by several sets of new dies mixed with coins struck by worn out dies.

So now tell me, how could anybody even remotely consider the coins in that first hooper load as being first strikes ? And realize, a single hopper load weighs about a ton, 2,000 pounds. How many coins is that ?

Then those hopper loads of coins are placed into a single large bag also weighing a ton. They sit in a room waiting to be loaded onto trucks for distribution. You could have the bags of several days production all mixed together. And nobody makes any effort to load this one first or that one first. They take the one in front, which of course will be the last bag placed there - not the first, even if they all came from the same day's production.

So any pretense at calling any coin a first strike is a joke, beyond a joke.

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zekeguzz

The seller I refered agreed that "FIRST DAY OF ISSUE" is much more appropriate and stated that he would change every listing for his 2006 mint proof sets. I just checked and he is " Aman of his word". Iwill deal with this man everytime he lists coins that I am looking for and I reccomend him to everyone here. zeke

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-US-MINT-10-...em1c0dcee188he

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dreamer94

"First Day of Issue" is completely meaningless. It indicates only the day they were sold and has nothing to do with the day they were made or the day they were shipped. The only honest designation is "Direct from the US Mint".