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11-02-2009, 02:51 PM
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#16 (permalink)
| | doggone it people like me
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,806
My Mood:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by illini420  But remember not all AU58s are equal!!!...Third party grading of AU58 coins encompasses a huge range of eye appeal for most coins based on what I've seen. | Right-o.
Sometimes, I think the TPGs allow some coins to to jump the Great Divide between circ and uncirc - high-end AU coins are market graded MS61; bangy, baggy low-end MS coins are market graded AU58. In particular, I have seen this on Indian gold $2.5s and $5s.
Last edited by 900fine; 11-02-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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11-02-2009, 05:55 PM
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#17 (permalink)
| | Online Dealer & Analyst
Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,440
My Mood:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by illini420 But remember not all AU58s are equal!!! Some of them will look like "AU64" coins and will command a big premium if the right bidders see them available. But others will look more like a circulated coin of a lower grade. Third party grading of AU58 coins encompasses a huge range of eye appeal for most coins based on what I've seen.
Since I know you're a member over there too, there was a decent thread about not all AU58s are alike posted over on the CU forum not too long ago: http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=726304 | Oh I know!! I wasn't born yesterday lol..
I've gone through plenty of bad example AU 58's as well.
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Wisdom from the Bull & the Bear(BNB): "Always find the true value of your investment. How you may ask? By seeing what others like us are willing to pay for that same item. Forget dealer's opinions and price guides; the real value comes from what we're willing to pay from sites like ebay or heritage.."
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11-02-2009, 06:08 PM
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#18 (permalink)
| | Runnin' Buffalo
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 435
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GREAT thread, quite educational... never thought about grades that way.
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11-02-2009, 06:09 PM
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#19 (permalink)
| | exsisto magister
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,171
My Mood:  |
I agree not all AU58's are the same.... I have seen some horrendous looking coins in AU58 holders. If a coin has been graded a 58 there is a reason... it could be a light rub like Marks coin (beauty by the way) or I have seen Unc. coins that IMHO have been cleaned and then retoned back to market acceptable graded as 58's as well. You must learn to tell why coins have been graded how they have been graded before your going to be able to find the good stuff.
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11-02-2009, 07:04 PM
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#20 (permalink)
| | Online Dealer & Analyst
Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,440
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by LostDutchman I agree not all AU58's are the same.... I have seen some horrendous looking coins in AU58 holders. If a coin has been graded a 58 there is a reason... it could be a light rub like Marks coin (beauty by the way) or I have seen Unc. coins that IMHO have been cleaned and then retoned back to market acceptable graded as 58's as well. You must learn to tell why coins have been graded how they have been graded before your going to be able to find the good stuff. | Yeah I hear you.
Everyone's way of finding the good stuff varies, though.
For me, I like to find luster and shine. All natural of course 
So, I could sacrifice a few rubs with an au58 knowing that I'll pay more than likely thousands less on a key date.
__________________
Wisdom from the Bull & the Bear(BNB): "Always find the true value of your investment. How you may ask? By seeing what others like us are willing to pay for that same item. Forget dealer's opinions and price guides; the real value comes from what we're willing to pay from sites like ebay or heritage.."
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11-02-2009, 07:06 PM
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#21 (permalink)
| | Morgans Morgans Morgans
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York
Posts: 3,020
My Mood:  |
I agree with the whole AU64 idea, especially with the Morgan dollar series, imo there are many AU55-58 Morgans that are much more appealing then MS60,61 coins. Here's an example (2 coins from Heritage) 1883-S $1 AU58 PCGS. PCGS Population (332/2332). NGC Census: (490/1468). Mintage: 6,250,000. Numismedia Wsl. Price for NGC/... Morgan Dollars 1883-S $1 MS61 NGC. NGC Census: (273/1135). PCGS Population (370/1804). Mintage: 6,250,000. Numismedia Wsl. Price for NGC/P... Morgan Dollars
The difference in the two coins is about $500, Imo I would much rather have the AU58.
Last edited by raider34; 11-02-2009 at 07:38 PM.
Reason: posted wrong coin.
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11-02-2009, 07:10 PM
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#22 (permalink)
| | Hamster
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 526
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Wow, I'm a grasshopper in a field of butterflies!
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11-02-2009, 07:16 PM
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#23 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: United States of America
Posts: 3,382
My Mood:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Ham Wow, I'm a grasshopper in a field of butterflies! | Better that being a grasshopper in a field of frogs. 
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"These are the times that try men's' souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
Thomas Paine, Intro to the The Crisis, December 19, 1776 | |
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11-02-2009, 07:28 PM
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#24 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,189
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Originally Posted by raider34 | Did you actually blow up those two coins - I would take the 61 over that 55. The gouges on the cheek were such a turn off to me, where as on the 62 it look more like light bag marks on the cheek. Just curious - I do agree with you that in some cases au coins out shine the low ms coins, but these did not meet that situation to me. Just my humble opinion.
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11-02-2009, 07:36 PM
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#25 (permalink)
| | Morgans Morgans Morgans
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York
Posts: 3,020
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_h Did you actually blow up those two coins - I would take the 61 over that 55. The gouges on the cheek were such a turn off to me, where as on the 62 it look more like light bag marks on the cheek. Just curious - I do agree with you that in some cases au coins out shine the low ms coins, but these did not meet that situation to me. Just my humble opinion. | Woops, thanks Mark I linked the wrong coin. I meant this AU58: 1883-S $1 AU58 PCGS. PCGS Population (332/2332). NGC Census: (490/1468). Mintage: 6,250,000. Numismedia Wsl. Price for NGC/... Morgan Dollars
Your right about that 55, that one was pretty rough.
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11-02-2009, 07:39 PM
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#26 (permalink)
| | Village Idiot
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,496
My Mood:  |
I think what was being posited is that sometimes you can find a more pleasing example of a coin in AU-58 than you can in low-end MS grades.
remember the fact that most AU-58 coins have very few contact marks, strong luster and good eye appeal, but they also have a slight amount of wear that precludes them from being graded MS. The lower end MS coins will have strong luster but generally less eye appeal and more contact marks.
It all depends on what you prefer as to which coin you buy.
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11-02-2009, 07:41 PM
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#27 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,189
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Originally Posted by raider34 | And you are right that Au58 coin is nicer than the 61. Loved it.
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Empty airtite seeks unwanted coins. All sizes welcome.
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11-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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#28 (permalink)
| | ANA# R3152287
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,701
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Check out this $10 Liberty MS-61. With BP it sold for over $200 less than NGC lists it at because of poor eye appeal. I know these are known for having heavily abraided surfaces but this is ridiculous! http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item...&Lot_No=24657#
While here's a MS-62 that earned it and is probably nicer than most AU-58s: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item...28&Lot_No=2615
And here's an AU-58 for half the price that went unsold, that I'd be just as happy to own. http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item...1&Lot_No=10518
The AU-58 seems like a much better value, for the relative difference for the budget minded.
Here's an AU-58 from June 2004 for $270. I'd like one of these. http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item...50&Lot_No=1139
But I shouldn't be mad that I didn't buy one then. Even though they're worth double that now in a depressed market, they're such a bad investment, I won't have to wait long for $270 again. lol
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Last edited by Vess1; 11-02-2009 at 08:41 PM.
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11-03-2009, 12:27 AM
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#29 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 242
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Feld I sold the AU58 1853 Arrows & Rays Half Dollar below, recently, and I think it serves as a good example of what's being discussed. It has a bit of rub on it, but nice luster and essentially mark-free surfaces, as well as pleasing, light patina. I see a lot of Arrows & Rays Half Dollars, including those graded MS65 and higher, but this one is more appealing to me than many of them.  | Mark, or anyone that can explain, want to indicate where the wear is on this coin? This looks like a beautiful AU58 but the wear is not readily apparent to me (for one thing, I don't know this series well enough to know the most likely areas of initial wear).
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Take back that country club they're trying to build outside my door!"
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11-03-2009, 08:44 AM
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#30 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,515
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Originally Posted by Breakdown Mark, or anyone that can explain, want to indicate where the wear is on this coin? This looks like a beautiful AU58 but the wear is not readily apparent to me (for one thing, I don't know this series well enough to know the most likely areas of initial wear). | Both breast, right arm, right leg, left side of the rock and in the fields - all on the obv.
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