Cloudsweeper99

This is probably very basic and a somewhat stupid question, but I don't know the answer or where to find reliable information.

I see the terms proof, cameo, deep cameo, and ultra cameo thrown around but I don't really understand it. I know the difference between proof and business strike coins. But I see the various cameo term used without a real description.

What does each mean? Which is considered "better?" I haven't been able to determine whether dcam is mor valuable than ucam, or the other way around.

Thanks in advance.

OldDan

Here you go Cloudsweeper, I think you will be able to find what you are looking for at this site:

http://www.pcgs.com/lingo.chtml

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Cloudsweeper99

Thanks Old Dan. That's a partial answer but not quite complete. Am I correct in assuming that all other things being equal, coins rank as follows in order of least to most desirable?

1. Proof
2. Cameo
3. DCameo
4. UCam

Are the various states considered evidence of a better or worse coin? Is the degree of proof/cameo evidence of a better or worse strike, or are the coins intentionally made this way? Are cameo coins ever worth more than DCam, or is DCam ever worth more than UCam? I guess I'm missing something here that everyone else knows, and the pcgs website doesn't explain it either. I can't find my decoder ring to figure it out.

OldDan

For my money, anything other than proof and cameo are figments of someones immagination, and hype to make money. Yes special dies are used to get what is called cameo. They appear as black fields when viewed as did the original cameo pins worn by your grandmother. I don't worry about any thing other than the two types and have done quite nicely for the last few years of collecting.

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SFDukie

Hi Cloudsweeper,
Just to elaborate on GD's excelent answer, and specifically answer your question, in general Ucam/Dcam proofs are more highly valued than Cam, which are more highly valued than a coin which is proof but not cameo. But there are exceptions- an otherwise flawless, Pr69 or 70 coin might be more desirable than a Cam or dcam with a lesser grade due to spotting, hairlines or the like. Most modern US proofs are at least Cam, as GD alluded to.
Don

Cloudsweeper99

That's what I need to know. I'm working to reduce my gullibility factor here and it's good to know the difference between what's real and what is hype. So I guess the mint intentionally uses different dies to make the proof and cameo coins.

Cloudsweeper99

In thinking about this some more, I take it cameo coins are a type of proof coin. If so, are they worth more, less, or the same as a proof coin? Or are all modern proof coins cameo? I haven't seen enough of them to know because everything I've ever collected is a business strike, mostly circulated. Sorry, but I just seem to have a complete mental block on this subject and I apologize to the forum for asking the questions. The Redbook doesn't even have 'cameo' in the glossary.

GDJMSP

Deep Cameo and Ultra Cameo are one and the same - they are just the terms used by different grading companies. PCGS uses Deep Cameo, DCAM. NGC uses Ultra Cameo, UCAM (NGC is the only company that uses the term UCAM by the way). The terms are interchangeable and there is no difference bewteen them.

Now just Cameo, CAM, is a term used by both companies when grading Proof coins. Just as Proof is a term that both companies use.

While Proof is a method of manufacture, it is also a term used when it comes to grading. It's a designation if you will. And when it comes as to which designation is ranked higher than the next - they come in this order, with #1 being the highest rank when grading Proof coins.

1 - DCAM or UCAM
2 - CAM
3 - Proof

Now there's a logical reason for this. When Proof coin dies are new, they are purposely made to produce the cameo effect. The devices of the coin die, the legends & design, used to be sandblasted ( today they use lasers ) to give them a somewhat rough surface. This surface is what produces the cameo effect. The field areas of the coin die is highly polished to a mirror like finish - to produce the mirror like finish on the coin.

Now this rough surface of the coin die that produces the cameo effect wears with use. The more coins that are struck with a die - the less the cameo effect will be. Eventually it will wear out completely if the die is used that long. In years past - this was common. And this why it is so hard to find CAM or DCAM examples in older Proofs. But in the '70s the mint stopped this practice. They began to replace the dies when they stopped producing the cameo coins. This practice continues today. It is quite rare to find a modern Proof coin that is not Cameo. Even Deep Cameo is common for modern Proofs, but not as common as Cameo.

So - when it comes to pricing these Proof coins, those graded as DCAM bring the highest prices. CAM is next and then just PF. You can have 3 coins graded as PF69 DCAM, PF69 CAM and PF69. That is the same order in which they will be priced with PF69 DCAM being the highest for the reasons I have explained above.

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Cloudsweeper99

Thanks. That really clarifies things. It's good to have a place like this to learn the things that aren't easily found in the books.