French Banknote Theft

Dave M · 08-22-2009, 03:38 PM

I've been the victim of a theft, and would like the forum to be aware and on the lookout for a couple notes. Two French banknotes (SCWPM P.2/Fayette F.02.33 alph C.8688, #267, and SCWPM P.131c/F.48.08 Alph P.130 #37204 pictured below) were purchased by me from the Compagnie Generale de Bourse (CGB, Paris France) Papier Monnaie 14 auction of June 25, 2009 as auction lots 47 and 247. For a variety of reasons, they were not shipped to me until August 7th. Upon delivery to me on August 20, 2009, I found the package empty. I will be pursuing this through the postal services, of course.

These notes are quite rare, both are in UNC condition. If you come across these notes through a dealer, auction, eBay, or other source, I would certainly appreciate contact through www.FrenchBanknotes.com.

I would appreciate it if a moderator could "sticky" this post for a while.

Thank you,
Dave Mills

NOS · 08-22-2009, 04:57 PM

One of a number of things may have happened:
1. The company who shipped out the notes may have shipped off an empty package accidentally.

2. They may have shipped an empty parcel intentionally with the thought that you would receive a package and would have to sign for it. As far as they would acknowledge, you received the notes by signing for the package.

3. A postal employee opened the package and removed the notes and placed the empty package back into circulation for you to receive.

Seeing as how you bought internationally, there is no telling where exactly your notes may have been taken if option #3 is what happened. Were they swiped in France, a transfer station in Britain or possibly New York? Perhaps your notes made it all the way to Folsom and it was the mailman who delivers your mail right to your door. As one can see, such speculation can become complicated. Unless option #1 happened, I would consider your notes to be missing forever---sorry about the loss. Hopefully you can collect insurance and recoup some of your costs. If you haven't done so already, get in contact with CGB and find out if option #1 is a possibility.

**RickieB** · 08-22-2009, 05:14 PM

Dave...

I am sorry to hear this...
I am almost constantly searching and will keep my eyes open for you.
I just received a note in the mail Series 2004 $10 in Gem 66 that the mail man decided he was going to fold the package to get it into the mailbox...it is the first time this happened and it creased the note and the holder from CGA...the note 's SN was B00001656A and was a Birthday gift to USS656

I felt horrible trying to explain this to him....

Sometimes things happen...I called the company that shipped it and asked for future shipment be better packaged.

Good luck on finding your notes...they were some beauties!!

RickieB

schwalbe · 08-22-2009, 05:34 PM

i'm sorry to hear that.... i hope you get them back.. i will stay on the look out for you.

Dave M · 08-22-2009, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the comments, guys. I realize I have little hope of ever seeing these notes, but am holding out a bit in the chance that they are rare enough to raise the eyebrows on some folks who might see them for sale. I am still cringing over the possible financial loss as well as the thought of a thief stealing these, folding them up and putting them in his wallet to go home.

NOS, I can pretty much rule out your options #1 and #2. CGB is one of, or perhaps the largest French auction house. I've done business with them for 20 years, and have no reason to think they mailed me an empty package. I am in touch with the person who does the mailing, and from the discussions we've had it seems pretty clear it was opened during transit. But like you say, that transit is pretty circuitous from Paris to Folsom, and the package went through many hands, taking about 2 weeks to get to me. CGB will be filing a claim with the French P.O. for the insurance, and I have already filed a report with the US Postal Inspectors (I have no financial claim with USPS, since the notes were not sent by me) though I'm not sure what they actually do with these reported issues.

I've lost a great deal of trust in the mail system with this transaction, and at the moment cannot think of a way to execute transactions like this in the future. If the insurance claim pays off, that will help my confidence enormously, but if anyone has suggestions about good ways to be more confident that notes will actually arrive, especially when sent from different countries, I'm all ears.

Dave

Dave M · 08-23-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickieB

I just received a note in the mail Series 2004 $10 in Gem 66 that the mail man decided he was going to fold the package to get it into the mailbox...it is the first time this happened and it creased the note and the holder from CGA...the note 's SN was B00001656A and was a Birthday gift to USS656

Rickie, aside from the numismatic disaster of this, were you able to get insurance recovery from the incident?

Dave

**RickieB** · 08-23-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

Rickie, aside from the numismatic disaster of this, were you able to get insurance recovery from the incident?

Dave

Dave...

I called the company and they felt embarrassed about the whole deal. It has changed their way of shipping and the company Pres actually called me.
They told me to return it no questions asked....

I hope your situation turns out as well.

Any news yet on the notes? That turns my stomach when news like this gets around...man you just cant trust anyone these days!!

I hope the best for your recovery of those most excellent notes!!

RickieB

Dave M · 08-23-2009, 05:08 PM

Thanks for the info and support... I doubt my situation will be just paid off by CGB, but I can hope.

No new news yet; on Monday the CGB person will file a claim with the French Post Office, which is where it was mailed and insured, so I expect to hear something from that. CGB has agreed from the photos of the packaging that there was a theft during shipment, so at least I feel like I have an ally in them. I have no idea whether the insurance claim will turn into months of French bureaucracy and finger-pointing, or a swift payment.

Dave

**RickieB** · 08-23-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

Thanks for the info and support... I doubt my situation will be just paid off by CGB, but I can hope.

No new news yet; on Monday the CGB person will file a claim with the French Post Office, which is where it was mailed and insured, so I expect to hear something from that. CGB has agreed from the photos of the packaging that there was a theft during shipment, so at least I feel like I have an ally in them. I have no idea whether the insurance claim will turn into months of French bureaucracy and finger-pointing, or a swift payment.

Dave

Well I hope it is a swift payment!

While on business in North Carolina, I mailed a 6K check to a dealer by walking into that P.O. and placing the letter into the "Out of Town" Box myself.
3 weeks later the guy calls me and says..hey, have not received your check...you still want this note??

I called the Bank and stopped payment and had a Bank Check cut...that was the last time I have ever written a personal check...to this day it has not been found.

I wish you luck Dave,...keep us posted.

RickieB

beshergh · 08-23-2009, 06:21 PM

nice banknotes.........

**RickieB** · 08-24-2009, 10:40 PM

***Bump***

Trying to kep this near the Top!!

RickieB

**RickieB** · 08-26-2009, 08:19 AM

***bump***

**De Orc** · 08-26-2009, 10:22 AM

Sorry I did not spot this sooner Dave have stuck it for the moment, Any news on the notes or how things are progressing. I have also made a note of the them just in case I see anything at any of the shows I visit over here, You never know.

Dave M · 08-26-2009, 08:29 PM

Thanks De Orc and Ricky for keeping this thread visible.

No particularly good news unfortunately. A claim has been opened with the French Postal Service, and I'm trying to get a letter from my postal carrier here in the US (which has turned into a bit of arm twisting as they "don't want to get in the middle of it"). That's about it on the insurance side. No leads on where the notes might be though.

Dave

**Daggarjon** · 09-10-2009, 09:28 PM

Very sorry to hear about your troubles! I know how hard it is to not only fight to retrieve the lost items, but to also try to get past the pain and troubled thoughts on 'who', on getting past the feeling of being violated. I cant see anyone along the path the package travleled that would have the time or desire to randomly open boxes to see what they contained. I guess its possible, but how likely? I would have to guess it was 1 of three 'types' of people. ... first would be someone you know that knows you collect .. your postman? neighbor? anyone who knows you collect, and has access to your mail. second, someone on the other end .. the shipper. Only you and them knew just what was in the package, and that it was collectible. Although you trust the company, not every employee stands for the integrity of the firm as a whole - in effect, there is a bad apple in every bunch. Lastly, how was the package ... well.. packaged? Did it indicate the auction house on the label? If not, does the auction house use the exact type of indescriminate packing label? I know alot of packages i get, i know exactly who i am getting it from because their label is always the same - it might not say the who... but i know based on the type of label. Basicaly, anyone who might 'know' the shipping label of that company, and had your package pass through their hands might know the contents are valuable. Another possibility that comes to mind are the postal employees. If it said on the shipper the package was insured, and for how much ... what a HUGE sign that says contents valuable ... also pointing to an postal employee.

Getting money back is one thing ... but if you wanted that, you never would have bid on the items. While i do hope you get your money back, i really do hope the items are recovered and returned to you!!! And more importantly, i hope you can get past this and continue with the love of collecting!!!!

I wish you the best of luck, and if i can help with anything, just let me know!!!!

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