Thread: Coins as old as 1616 A.D.

Hi All,

I m Aseem n all cn call me Aseem...k...i m 28 n have my business...collecting coins is my hobby and a childhood passion...i have a personal collection of Indian copper and other metal coins, which are as old as 1616 A.D. ....a cool collection of pre indian independence era...

Welcome, I really like the design on some of those copper pieces in your photo.

Welcome to the gang!

But, that 1616 date?

Welcome to Coin Talk Aseem
Nice picture of Indian fantasy coins and tokens. I too have one or two of these.

Welcome to CT. I know nothing about Indian coins but those are some interesting designs. Hope you'll keep showing more of your collection and teach us some new stuff. Cheers!

Originally Posted by CrustyCoins

Welcome, I really like the design on some of those copper pieces in your photo.

Hi Crusty, Hows ya...gud to c sm1 welcomin me on board...thnx..hope to have a nice time with ya guys...

Originally Posted by Treashunt

Welcome to the gang!

But, that 1616 date?

Hey, Treashunter,
Hoes ya..thanx for welcomin'..

its 1616 AD...actually, i do have older indian coins 2...but dont know their origin date, coz, in that era, they never used to stamp dates on coins, or might be its in some other lang...

Originally Posted by kidromeo

Welcome to Coin Talk Aseem
Nice picture of Indian fantasy coins and tokens. I too have one or two of these.

Hi Romeo, is it...nice to hear tht...hope to share each other collection very soon...

Originally Posted by krispy

Welcome to CT. I know nothing about Indian coins but those are some interesting designs. Hope you'll keep showing more of your collection and teach us some new stuff. Cheers!

Hi Krispy,

India boast to have the major early civilizations of the world...n Civilization includes business transactions too..it started off really early in Indian Peninsula area...For business, everybud need some good currency measure, as it was a problem doin businesses in barter system..

But these are the coins which shows the entry of England's East India Company to India' diffrent regions...as they minted different designs carrying the idols of the inhabitants of diff. areas for them...means..area specific..like guru nanak dev ji for punjab and sindh;....Lord Ram chander, Lord Krishna, Lord Shiva for hindu dominated regions; Allah , 786, scrips from Holy koran stateing coins for muslim states..etc..

nyways, history apart, hope to have a good cultural transactions with ya guys...

Aseem Batra,

Originally Posted by krispy

Welcome to CT. I know nothing about Indian coins but those are some interesting designs. Hope you'll keep showing more of your collection and teach us some new stuff. Cheers!

Hi Krispy,

India boast to have the major early civilizations of the world...n Civilization includes business transactions too..it started off really early in Indian Peninsula area...For business, everybud need some good currency measure, as it was a problem doin businesses in barter system..

But these are the coins which shows the entry of England's East India Company to India' diffrent regions...as they minted different designs carrying the idols of the inhabitants of diff. areas for them...means..area specific..like guru nanak dev ji for punjab and sindh;....Lord Ram chander, Lord Krishna, Lord Shiva for hindu dominated regions; Allah , 786, scrips from Holy koran stateing coins for muslim states..etc..

nyways, history apart, hope to have a good cultural transactions with ya guys...

Aseem Batra,

Wecome India.Store! Those are some fun coins in that pic!

Originally Posted by indian.store

Hi Krispy,

India boast to have the major early civilizations of the world...n Civilization includes business transactions too..it started off really early in Indian Peninsula area...For business, everybud need some good currency measure, as it was a problem doin businesses in barter system..

But these are the coins which shows the entry of England's East India Company to India' diffrent regions...as they minted different designs carrying the idols of the inhabitants of diff. areas for them...means..area specific..like guru nanak dev ji for punjab and sindh;....Lord Ram chander, Lord Krishna, Lord Shiva for hindu dominated regions; Allah , 786, scrips from Holy koran stateing coins for muslim states..etc..

nyways, history apart, hope to have a good cultural transactions with ya guys...

Aseem Batra,

Wow! Thanks. Very interesting background.

a possible opinion on "coins of 1616"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_t...ompany_in_1616

hey frankie, hows the book coming? havent recieved your silver coin... didnt u mention my correct room# when u mailed it the asylum

Originally Posted by danfierce70

Wecome India.Store! Those are some fun coins in that pic!

Hiii buddy....well well..these all are pictures of our gods....n yeah...thts a gud idea....worshippin with fun....

Originally Posted by Mumbapuri

a possible opinion on "coins of 1616"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_t...ompany_in_1616

hey frankie, hows the book coming? havent recieved your silver coin... didnt u mention my correct room# when u mailed it the asylum

ooo Bhai Mumbaikar....ki haal chal hai ji.....Thanx sir, for makin me realizin the facts.....that means, its from the first lot the East India Company Made.....GR8...........Bhai...lets have a look at the pic...

Q:Who were the reciepients of the copper iridium lebbo coins issued by the British East India Company in 1616?


Ans.:
You are assuming that the East India Company "introduced" Lebbo coins in 1616, a story being propagated by half-informed rumour-mongers. There is no numismatic record of the East India Company having issued such coins for the purpose of trade. There were no such "coins" introduced either in the form of currency or as legal tender. The lebbo coin exists, but the story is quite different from what is often rumoured. First of all it must be understood that the Lebbo was not a coin. It was not intended for trade. It was created from an alloy of metals found in a meteorite, and the British were involved in its manufacture only because they had a small gun-factory at Surat that these Indian metallurgists were allowed to use by order of the King of Surat. The British involvement can be noted by the English alphabets occurring on one face of the so-called "coin". In 1616, The East India Company consisted of a hand-full of sailors. They were not in power. They had not even conceived of the idea of ruling India. They were a small group of businessmen begging the King of Surat for some land to establish their godowns. They had not even traveled to or seen the rest of India. Most of India was ruled by the Mughals (Jahangir). Where was the question of the East India Company issuing coins in India?
NUMISMATIC COINS - First let us understand how coins as a means of trade evolved. It is very difficult to know today where the concept of coinage first evolved, but based on available evidences, it appears that the concept of money (as coins, which by definition here would be a piece of metal of defined weight stamped with symbol of authority for financial transaction), was conceived by three different civilizations independently and almost simultaneously. Coins were introduced as a means to trade things of daily usage in Asia minor, India and China in 6th century BC. Most historians agree that the first coins of world were issued by Greeks living in Lydia and Ionia (located on the western coast of modern Turkey). These first coins were globules of Electrum, a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver. These were crude coins of definite weight stamped with incuse punches issued by the local authorities in 650 BC.
Most likely the first coins of India were minted just before 5th century BC in northern and central India. Although, few historian have suggested (based on vedic records) that India minted perhaps the first coins of the world which were introduced even earlier than Lydian/Ionian coins, in 8th century BC; most western scholars do not agree with this theory. Both, literary and archaeological evidence confirm that the Indians invented coinage somewhere between 5th to 6th century BC.
THE LEBBO - Coming back to your question of the Lebbo "coin", it must be understood that India had innumerable medals, medallions, talismans, temple-tokens, royal tokens, engraved metals, punch-marked coins, value-redeemable metal seals, leather coins, lockets etc., that do not necessarily conform to standard numismatics but which were being produced in every kingdom and region for 2000 years before the British landed in India. Many are still being discovered. Because they were manufactured, minted or cast in small quantities, because they served some purpose (as a reward, as a religious ceremony, as a gift during weddings, etc.) other than trade, their history is often very difficult to trace. But this does not mean that they didn't exist. However, as with alchemy and ayurveda, experiments were conducted by scholars utilizing various metals, herbs and naturally occurring elements for the purpose of studying medicine, chemistry etc.
Much of what is often rumored about the lebbo coin is heresy, though some are very true.
So what is true? (1) Yes, they were made in a gun-foundry in Surat (2) The purpose for their manufacture is not known. The British assumed it was for some local religious purpose, but the Englishmen were allowed to put their insignia on one side of the coin. A fault in the mould caused "EIC" to become "EID" (3) Its manufacture was done based on some ancient Sanskrit texts. (4) Detailed astronomical study was done before its manufacture. (5) eight "pairs" of coins were made (6) They were made during a solar eclipse as per the instructions in the text.
For some unknown reason the sixteen pieces were believed to have been transported to the Andaman Islands some years later, and believed to have been lost in the jetty in what later came to be known as Port Blair. Many believe that people involved in the manufacture in 1616 were struck by unknown disease. At the time when they were made, they were not called "lebbo". This was a name given after 1945 by some researchers. It is an abbreviation for "Light Emitting Bionic Bi-polar Orb" a code name for a specific application they had developed in Germany during the Nazi regime.
Some of these coins show peculiar characteristics, which is not surprising considering they were made of rare and unknown alloy mixed with copper. They have antique, curio and intrinsic value if a genuine one can be found. It is rumored that they emit radiation and may be radio-active. Which makes it illegal to possess them. Some attribute unimaginable value to it which is not realistic.
I have examined many fakes in Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. On one occasion I examined a genuine Lebbo coin which showed some form of radiation, causing dry cells to corrupt, interfering with electrical and electronic equipment and causing mild changes in water temperature when it is immersed in it. Out of curiosity I checked the metal piece many times. The results were however never consistent and sometimes very anomalous. It was oval and weighed about 154 gms. I refused to either get involved in its trading or in any transaction related to it.
The Lebbo is a current rage among collectors. It is also a vehicle for racketeers who form so-called "Companies" and collect "testing fees" from gullible investors, posing as buyers. Some Govt. agencies - from namely the UK, USA and West Germany (before unification) showed interest in some scientific applications utilizing these coins in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Nothing much is known about these enquiries since. Today there is a mix of mystery, truth, rumors and some ridiculous claims surrounding the Lebbo coins.
CONCLUSION - Personally I know they exist. I have tested one that appeared to be genuine. There was no trickery involved as I tested it on my own with full freedom to form my own opinion. It was exactly as described in some magazine articles I had read many years ago. It had "1616" on it and it also showed a fault in the mould (EID), two snakes, three points, the sun, moon, stars etc. It was hand-made. And it weighed about 154 gms.