mystery lots?

beer24seven · 01-14-2004, 10:21 PM

hey all, guess i'm pretty new here. i just have a question about something i couldn't find out for myself. there are several "mystery lots" on ebay guaranteed to catalog over $5000 that are being sold for under $400 each. of course, they wouldn't give you any clues about what you'll get and all sales through them are final.

anyways, i did my homework. these lots are full of higher grade newer coins that list pretty high in ms-68, and extremely low a couple notches down in say, ms-65. fairly common stuff like a 1954d wheat or a 1978 washington. are these catalog values accurate? i looked them up on the pcgs website, and all of the mystery lot's value claims seem to be true. also, every coin is also slabbed by ngc or pcgs, depending on which lot you bid on.

so is this a good thing or not? i really don't know who to resell an ms-68 1978 washington off to, slabbed or otherwise, for anything over $10.

**GDJMSP** · 01-14-2004, 10:41 PM

A couple things - the prices listed on the PCGS site - or any price guide for that matter - are just that - guides. They certainly do not establish true value. If you wish to know what a given coin is selling for at a given time - auction records are your best bet.

As to the grades you mention - it would depend entirely on the coin as to whether or not it would bring a given price. Some coins in MS65 would bring hundreds if not thousands of dollars at sale. While others might bring $10. But MS68 - that's another matter. Again it would depend on the coin - but MS68 is not a grade that is found on many coins slabbed by NGC or PCGS with the possible exception of modern commems & silver or gold eagles. Coins struck for circulation and graded MS68 by NGC or PCGS would bring substantial premiums in most cases.

But one thing I can tell you - if these mystery lots were really worth $5,000 - they certainly would not be selling them for $400.

beer24seven · 01-14-2004, 11:43 PM

check it out for yourself.... http://bluemooncoins.com/

our inventory -> 03) discount investment lots

they're selling the same thing on ebay, except without telling you what exactly you'll get.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...6&category=525

laz · 01-15-2004, 06:56 AM

A general rule of thumb as you go through life.. "if something sounds too good to be true,it usually is." While bargain hunting can be done,there is no Santa Claus in numismatics. Basically, a coins value is what another collector would be willing to pay. Check those sales to see how many buyers are bidding. You might do better to spend that $400. this time on coin books and subscriptions to coin newspapers. Increase in knowledge, and you'll start finding some real bargains! JMOHO ~ Jim

**GDJMSP** · 01-15-2004, 09:31 PM

OK - I did as you suggested and checked it out myself - every single offering. Apparently there are a few things you are not aware of. For example - that particular dealer is well known for selling overgraded coins at hugely inflated prices. You should also be aware that not all grading companies are equal.

For example - a given coin in a PCGS or NGC slab graded as MS68 may sell for $300. But a similar coin in a ICG slab with a grade of MS68 will likely sell for $50. If the coin is in an NTC slab - make that $30. Now these are only generalizations - but fairly accurate.

National dealer · 01-21-2004, 04:55 PM

Once again, these guys are correct. Mystery lots are put together to move merchandise that cannot be sold otherwise. Every reputable dealer has what we call a junk box. These groups of coins come out of them. Don't confuse the term junk box with the coins. Coins that are overgraded, cleaned and then slabbed by a third party grading service often fill these boxes at steep discounts. Others are the modern craze that is effecting the hobby. All coins minted from 1990 on should grade a minimum of MS-68. It is true that some services are a far cry from the top two. (PCGS-NGC) Not to say that all are bad, but some are regulars in overgrading. When looking on Ebay or anywhere else, ask yourself why a certain coin in one holder is sold for good money and the other holder with the same coin is so discounted. NO DEALER will give away coins at discounted prices when they can sell them at retail. Before buying such material, ask a reputable dealer his buy prices on these coins. That is the best indicator. Good luck. Knowledge is the key.

mhinchley · 03-08-2004, 03:07 PM

Not to be sarcastic, but would you buy a 1990 mystery car for $5000??? LOL. There is a reason for the deception.

National dealer · 03-08-2004, 03:10 PM

I would not necessarily call it deception. It is just a way of moving bulk material. It isn't much different than selling bags of wheats. Someone will buy in the hopes of finding a key date or semi key. As long as the seller is honest in the description, no harm - no foul.

mhinchley · 03-08-2004, 03:40 PM

Deception may not be the case with some of these "sellers", but in most cases I personally think it is. The coins have generally been gone through, with any worth a dime removed already. And the ones with the 'best left in bag' lots are generally sent to the very high bidders, or buyers of multiple lots. Yes I have heard stories of the 'rare coin found' in a bag, everyone has........but for everyone of them I hear 1000 replies to garbage coinage. The risk is not worth the spoils to me personally. But that is just my opinion.

National dealer · 03-08-2004, 03:54 PM

Well certain enjoyment can be had just by searching. I still enjoy searching through rolls of coins. Of course this is just as easy when purchased at the local bank. I do not recommend buying mystery lots for the possibility of finding rare coins, but for the enjoyment. Like anything else, knowledge is learned by experience.

mhinchley · 03-08-2004, 04:01 PM

I will agree with that. As one user posted, going through them with a child can be loads of fun and a learning experience for all involved. I just would not pay $400 to do it......hoping to make money off of it.

National dealer · 03-08-2004, 04:16 PM

I believe that was I that said that. It is. Oh by the way, welcome to the forum sir.

**GDJMSP** · 03-08-2004, 10:54 PM

Frankly - dealers don't have time to go through bags of coins. It just takes too long. If they buy a bag from somebody and they can sell it and make 10% - the bag is gone without them ever looking at the coins.

You're right though about the coins having been looked at. Over the years - they've probably been looked at 100 times. The thing is - did the person doing the looking KNOW what they were looking at in the first place ?

Many bags of coins are bout by error & variety collectors. They'll go through the bags with a fine tooth comb because they know what they are looking for - and they find it on a regular basis.

The problem comes in with having the knowledge to be able to do that.

satootoko · 03-09-2004, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Moon in their Auction Text

This is an excellent opportunity for a long term investment. Play the numbers and don't worry too much about the specifics of collecting. Check out what your coins will be worth in five, ten, or twenty years. Of course past performance does not guarantee future results

He's not selling collectible coins, he's selling "investment" dreams! Is his outfit called "Blue Moon" for the same reason that the laws regulating investment sales are called "blue sky" laws?

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