Scrumhalf2

What is the purpose for putting holes in these coins? Jewelry? Regular damage?

Coinman_Ben

If it were authentic, the seller would have paid at least $300-$400 for it. I think the seller who sold the dime to the person who was selling it on ebay was duped into buying a counterfeit coin and the person selling it on ebay was deceived by the person he bought it from. The coin looked like it was in fair condition, the next grade up is AG-3, which a real 1916-D mercury dime sells for $900. Another thing, silver coins in good to fair condition don't tarnish as they wear down, any tarnish it would have had would have warn away with the coins, so it would have had more of a grey tone with little, if any detail, and on top of that, as I was looking at the metal where the holes are, and it seems to be shreading alittle too much for it to be a silver coin, so because of that, the price the seller who was selling the coin on ebay purchased it for, and good reference about the seller, the only conclusion I can come to is that the coin was made of lead, the seller who sold the coin to the person who sold it on ebay is a snake, and the person selling it on ebay is a novice. I know that sounds harsh, but if you want me to prove my claim that the coin is made of lead, I'll take the picture of the coin from ebay, post it here and put it side by side with a 1923 merc in about good to fair condition to show you what a coin in that condition really looks like. You will see that it is much brighter than a coin made of lead, even in such terrible condition.

desertgem

That seems a repairable coin if someone wanted to have a pro do it. There isn't much damage in the devices and although it might not fool a TPG, it could some on ebay as the mintmark and other checkpoints would still be good.

Jim

Coinman_Ben

Here's a picture of a real mercury dime in fair to about good condition:



yes, I know this may be alittle blurry, but that's because I took this picture with my scanner. Scanners make pictures of silver coins in bad condition blurry because the light reflects off of the "warn smooth" silver surface very well, but what's important to note is not the detail or the light flashing off the coin, but the general color of the coin. This is one of the ways you can tell silver apart from lead made to look like tarnished silver.



Now here's the coin that we've been talking about:



Look at the top hole, the counterfieter (the person who made the coin rather than the ones selling it), didn't realize that the center of the planchent can easily be seen from the top hole. And guess what, the center is black. If the coin was made of silver, the center would be a whitish greyish color, but instead it's completely black. What this tells me is that the coin is a 100% genuine fake.

Also, when silver tones due to the natural aging process, it gets brown, not black.

jloring

I would like to see Mark's response to this. Sometimes photos can be deceiving.

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Jim

coinman0456

I am curious about a response as well. Ben , pointed out some enlightening observations.

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Mark Feld

I think you're doing a lot of speculating, on multiple levels. And badly over-estimating the value of the coin in that condition. I will go with the expertise, experience and honesty of the seller, over speculation from someone/anyone who has not seen the coin in-hand.

tmoneyeagles

I think that can be explained actually.
The coin looks to have been under dirt, or tar, I don't know, something dark. It was probably holed before it was put in the dirt. Now with all that time being under that substance, if the obverse, and reverse are dark, I would think the inside pieces of the two holes would be dark as well, JMO.

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From The Desk Of, -T$ (Kokapowan Tribe Leader)

http://www.tmoneyeagles.webs.com/

coinman0456

Personally, coin in hand or not assuming the coin in question is real, the current FMV for a G4 without "damage" is over $1,000.00 ( and hard to come by in that grade ) without some severe unappealing damage. I would suggest that given this damage and the state of preservation of the coin discussed, a value of 3-$400.00 is not without merit.

Now I will agree that Ben's speculation on the sellers "knowledge" and motive for selling this item, at this price is in part or wholly based upon any attempt to pass on a
counterfeit coin, is without merit , without first examining the coin in hand and not photos.
Dealing with sellers on Ebay is always "risky business" and the buyer should always beware. But it's always a good thing to have a recommendation such as mark provided.
And that should be weighed in the balance as well. If I were in the buyers situation, I'd probably jump on it too at that price! even with that damage.
I'd throw a $100.00 bill at that.

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Coinman_Ben

people recommend novice coin dealers all the time not because those coin dealers are experts in rare coins and counterfeits, but because they're experts in good customer service, which perfectly describes the seller on ebay. While it's good to have good recommendations, the fact is, most people's recommendations with ebay sellers have to do with good customer service and not expertise. The kinds of recommendations where people are recommended for what they know happen more with face to face encounters with coin dealers and are especially rare on ebay.

Also, only copper coins turn black when burried under dirt. If it were burried under tar, there would be thick black residue in some places, and other places where it'd be as white as if it had been burried in dirt (which once you wipe off the dirt, it'll be as white as the coin I scanned to compare to the coin on ebay). The coin being sold on ebay was black all the way through, which means it's made of lead.

Mark Feld

In order to make sure there is no confusion due to the above post...The seller in question is not a novice coin dealer. He is one of the more active and knowledgeable dealers in the country, and he deservedly has an excellent reputation among the many people who have done business with him. The fact that you might not know of him doesn't change any of that.

My recommendation was based on having known and done business with him in face to face transactions over a period of many years. I wouldn't have vouched for him so strongly, based merely on internet transactions, without stating that that, alone, was the basis of my comments.

Coins can turn all sorts of colors and undergo various changes (or not), based on what is done to them and the environmental conditions to which they are exposed. And the results can be both extremely inconsistent and unpredictable.

You are being extremely unfair to the seller in stating that the coin is made of lead. Especially, based merely upon images, without having seen the coin in hand, and when the seller is an (honest) expert.

coinman0456

I'm not attempting to refute your claim, of the coin being counterfeit. It may very well be, I can't say for certain without coin in hand, and doing a proper metal test. If you perhaps are suggesting that your numismatic expertise includes the ability to do that with simply a photo, well let' take this show on the road!

If this seller is as reputable as mark infers, I'm certain he will live up to the virtues of Honesty and integrity and fairness. Let's face it we all have things get past us, and the reputable individual will make it right, 100% of the time. There is a price to pay for everything we do, as well as everything we don't do! Most of us to proclaim to believe in GOD, but we all look both ways before crossing a street.

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Coinman_Ben

yeah, I took a closer look at it and realized that it probably did turn black from tar or something like it. I just saw a few highlights of grey that's too light to be lead. If the seller of this coin is on Cointalk, I'd like to apologize to him for making the assumptions I did. I just don't trust ebay for rare coins because of the horror stories I hear of counterfiet coins being sold on ebay, so I basically limit my ebay coin purchases to junk silver and one ounce bars/rounds. If I want to get a less common or rare coin, the biggest requirement I have is that I see it in person before I buy it.

coinman0456

A wise man once commented of himself " We think a thousand words a day, write em down on a piece of paper, light fire to them and put them in our mouths " .

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Mark Feld

A wiser man once commented of himself "We think a thousand words a day, write em down on a piece of paper, light fire to them and watch them burn, but don't put them in our mouths"