A Tip On Counterfeits

tmoneyeagles · 05-26-2009, 02:02 AM

I’m writing this thread, because I’ve seen more and more people, just ask about counterfeits, and buy counterfeits. For all you people that have questions on counterfeits, please read, and for all people have other things to chime in about this topic, and even some examples to show off, I’d be more than glad if you’d post them!
When buying on eBay counterfeits are some of the things that you always have to be on the lookout for.
Some counterfeits and replicas are very good, and look identical to real coins
There are many ways to tell a counterfeit from a real coin, although it is rather hard to do over the internet. If you see any tiny writing on any spot of the coin, that you cannot clarify, this should set of red flags. A lot of replicas have the word “COPY” or “REPLICA” written on them, normally on the coin, just like it was supposed to be part of the coin’s design
Another indication of a COPY, REPLICA, or Counterfeited coin is price. If you see a key US coin, with a few seconds, minutes, or hours left, and it is extremely low, below $1, do not even touch the auction. A lot of replica sellers do not state in the auction’s title that it is a replica, but they state it somewhere in the listing. If there is no bidding activity, and it is a thousand dollar coin, and it is at 1 cent, this is obviously fake, if it is too good to be true, it is, and it will always be, don’t get your hopes up, on anything you see, on a site like eBay.
Now the most obvious signs, of spotting a counterfeit are designs...Make sure you KNOW YOUR COINS! Make sure you know how many stars, or feathers a coin should have, or any other design that is important. Lets say a coin should have 12 stars, 6 on each side, but has 7 on one side, and there are none of these errors to exist...Odds are it is fake. I'd post it here before bidding.

Now sometimes, counterfeit coins, can be in NGC or PCGS slabs. Here are good links to help detecting counterfeit slabs, if these slabs are counterfeits, than the coin probably is too. You can look up the certification number on NGC or PCGS’s website, but this will do no good with a counterfeit slab, because the serial number, IS REAL, it is a somewhat “stolen” serial number, so you have to be able to detect a fake slab, from a real slab
http://ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US317%26sa%3DG

Now, the pictures are clear, there is no sign of writing of the word COPY or REPLICA on the coin, and you paid a decent amount, and you think you have a nice coin.
Make sure you know what the coin’s weight is. When you get the coin, weigh it, and if it doesn’t match, you have a counterfeit coin. Also, another way to detect silver, from some other sort of metal the Chinese use in counterfeiting, is the magnet test. Get a simple magnet, and if you can pick up the coins with it, then you have a fake coin, silver will not stick to a magnet, nor will gold.
I guess the point I’m trying to get across, is don’t buy into too good to be true scams, and don’t be so easily fooled by anything, ANYTHING on eBay. On eBay you need to be a conservative, safe buyer, and following safe guidelines, like I have given, and getting better at detecting these fakes, will make you a safer buyer, and a smarter coin collector.
My biggest tip I can give, is, if you don’t HAVE to buy on eBay, don’t. If you want quality, and authentication, buy from a dealer, heritage, stacks, or David Lawrence, or any other good online auction house.
Don’t get me wrong, deals are to be found on eBay, but when buying, it is a must, to be careful.
If you have a question on a coin, the people here are always willing to help, and we’d be glad to take a look at the coin for you, and give you our best advice.
Take Care, and Happy Buying

shojo · 05-26-2009, 07:21 AM

VERY good info! I don't buy coins on ebay anymore because I'm not that good at grading, and I'm afraid of getting a fake. Unfortunately, that means I'm mainly stuck with mail order. I finally found 2 dealers at my local flea market, but most of their stuff is WAY overpriced. In my neck of the woods, people look at you like you have 2 heads if you try to ask for any of the new designs or let on that you're a collector.

Conder101 · 05-26-2009, 01:12 PM

The magnet information is only good for the cruder chinese counterfeits. On their quality jobs they are actually using the proper weight and alloy. So if it fail the magnet test you know it is fake, but if itpasses that doesn't mean it is real.

bobbeth87 · 05-26-2009, 01:27 PM

Tmoney:

Very, very nice thread and great info. Thanks!

tmoneyeagles · 05-26-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

The magnet information is only good for the cruder chinese counterfeits. On their quality jobs they are actually using the proper weight and alloy. So if it fail the magnet test you know it is fake, but if itpasses that doesn't mean it is real.

Okay, my whole point of writing this thread was helping others
SO, conder, what happens then...Take us from here.. What happens if it passes the test, and weight, then what?

WLhalves · 05-26-2009, 03:06 PM

I try to stay away from counterfeits the best I can. Thanks T$ you have made me aware of other things to look for.
To this point my rule has always been buy from Americans that reside in America,and if the price seems to good to be true something is up/funny.

Conder101 · 05-26-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

What happens if it passes the test, and weight, then what?

Then you need to know your series. For early issues knowing die varieties really helps because so far the Chinese haven't done much of anything trying to match die varieties. On later 19th century series it is good to know date characteristics, sizes and styles, also mintmark styles. The real key is to examine as many genuine coins as possible. You will learn that genuine coins have a certain look to them. That's not to say that you can always tell a genuine coin just by looking at it, but after awhile you will find that when you see a counterfeit it will just look wrong. You may not be able to put your finger exactly why it looks wrong but it should be a warning that you need to examine it more closely.

tmoneyeagles · 05-26-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

Then you need to know your series. For early issues knowing die varieties really helps because so far the Chinese haven't done much of anything trying to match die varieties. On later 19th century series it is good to know date characteristics, sizes and styles, also mintmark styles. The real key is to examine as many genuine coins as possible. You will learn that genuine coins have a certain look to them. That's not to say that you can always tell a genuine coin just by looking at it, but after awhile you will find that when you see a counterfeit it will just look wrong. You may not be able to put your finger exactly why it looks wrong but it should be a warning that you need to examine it more closely.

I believe I said something about knowing your series...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoneyeagles

Now the most obvious signs, of spotting a counterfeit are designs...Make sure you KNOW YOUR COINS! Make sure you know how many stars, or feathers a coin should have, or any other design that is important. Lets say a coin should have 12 stars, 6 on each side, but has 7 on one side, and there are none of these errors to exist...Odds are it is fake. I'd post it here before bidding.

tmoneyeagles · 05-26-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shojo

VERY good info! I don't buy coins on ebay anymore because I'm not that good at grading, and I'm afraid of getting a fake. Unfortunately, that means I'm mainly stuck with mail order. I finally found 2 dealers at my local flea market, but most of their stuff is WAY overpriced. In my neck of the woods, people look at you like you have 2 heads if you try to ask for any of the new designs or let on that you're a collector.

Yeah, I know what you mean...
Down here, we got dealers, overpricing things for days... MS62 coins, they want at MS64 and MS65 prices...They want top pop dollar for everything, and it is nuts...Still looking for a good dealer, but I doubt it'll happen
Why can't I just walk in to an antique shop, and pay $100 for a $20 St Gaudens??? LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO DO IT ALL THE TIME, and get lucky! LOL
I'd love to be that lucky!

But then again, maybe that senile old lady running the antique shop is selling counterfeits... LOL

rzage · 05-26-2009, 07:29 PM

A lot of good fakes have tooling marks where the counterfeiter tried to fix up weak spots , take at least a 10X loupe and look for tooling marks , Raised or sunken lines that shouldn't be there , also buy some books on counterfeits , like the Guide to Coin Grading & Counterfeit Detection . Certain coins have certain characteristics an example would be the 1877 Indian Cent , there was only one reverse die used on all the examples made and all have a weakness on the N of ONE , so know the coin you are buying , buy from repubattle dealers with a liberal return policy , I'd be wary of anyone who doesn't give one , and buy the book before the coin .
rzage

tmoneyeagles · 05-26-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rzage

A lot of good fakes have tooling marks where the counterfeiter tried to fix up weak spots , take at least a 10X loupe and look for tooling marks , Raised or sunken lines that shouldn't be there , also buy some books on counterfeits , like the Guide to Coin Grading & Counterfeit Detection . Certain coins have certain characteristics an example would be the 1877 Indian Cent , there was only one reverse die used on all the examples made and all have a weakness on the N of ONE , so know the coin you are buying , buy from repubattle dealers with a liberal return policy , I'd be wary of anyone who doesn't give one , and buy the book before the coin .
rzage

Never knew about the tooling marks

And yes, really, shy away from any coin, that doesn't have a return policy...
And yes, didn't even think of books that have been published, about counterfeit coins... Thanks for the tip

**TheNoost** · 05-26-2009, 09:17 PM

Casting seams on the rim and casting bubbles in/around the dentils and details of devices.

jloring · 05-26-2009, 09:34 PM

Another book that is a must read is "Numismatic Forgery" by Charles Larson... a highly detailed, step-by-step guide into the realm of rare coin counterfeiting. And don't think for even a minute that our Chinese friends aren't improving and perfecting their work... planchets of the correct alloy, dies cut with laser technology, artifical "aging"... whatever it takes. Susan Headley's little experiment proved that more than one dealer could be fooled with these "replicas". Pretty scary if you ask me.