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03-13-2005, 03:20 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | RMO Collector
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Texas
Posts: 332
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What that looks like to me is a case of machine doubling; damage after the strike, due to die bounce or chatter. Everything I've read says it is quite common, and actually reduces the coin's value. Some folks'll probably disagree with that.
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03-13-2005, 08:21 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,072
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Originally Posted by tonylynch What that looks like to me is a case of machine doubling; damage after the strike, due to die bounce or chatter. Everything I've read says it is quite common, and actually reduces the coin's value. Some folks'll probably disagree with that. |
If it was a double strike, wouldn't the majority of the coin be doubled? Just curious, so I'll wait for the resident experts to weigh in  | |
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03-13-2005, 08:25 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8
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Thanks for the replies people!
Yes I wondered about that also. I can't find any doubling on the coin other than the date and mint mark.
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03-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,072
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Originally Posted by Hardy Thanks for the replies people!
Yes I wondered about that also. I can't find any doubling on the coin other than the date and mint mark. |
Here's a LINK to a site with TONS of great error info. Ken Potter is a wealth of information, and even runs his own ebay store. I don't know for sure, but I believe he even checks into this forum from time to time.
Oh, before I forget, the CONECA website is another excellent resource. Here's the LINK | |
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03-13-2005, 11:46 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | RMO Collector
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Texas
Posts: 332
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Here is an excellent article by Ken Potter that discusses this as well as many other types of doubling. Specifically, look at the first example. I have a '57 D cent that has almost the exact same doubling as your '70 S. http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/O...OfDoubling.htm | |
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03-13-2005, 08:43 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Mexico
Posts: 492
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The 1970-S double die which is listed in Breens #2255 shows doubling on the date ,MM and Liberty, What you have maybe a variation of this coin type,, if your coin does not have doubling on Liberty,
Either way an in Person examination for your coin is recommended.
Your coin does not look like machine doubling to me,,
Rick
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03-14-2005, 07:17 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,448
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This looks like machine doubling, not a doubld die.
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03-14-2005, 05:16 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8
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Well since it isn't all that rare I think I'll just put it on Ebay listed as a "doubled date 1970-S Cent". Thanks for all the help.
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03-14-2005, 06:29 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,513
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Hardy -
Perhaps you don't understand - it's not that the coin is not rare - it is that it is NOT a doubled die coin.
Machine doubling adds absolutley zero value to a coin - it is caused when the dies bounce as the coin is struck. Machine doubling is entirely different than a doubled die.
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06-09-2005, 05:38 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Researching Coins
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,585
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Originally Posted by Hardy Well since it isn't all that rare I think I'll just put it on Ebay listed as a "doubled date 1970-S Cent". Thanks for all the help. | I wouldn't do that if I were you...ebay could kick you off for false listing...if the coin is not a error I wouldn't list it as an error.
Speedy
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06-09-2005, 06:46 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,203
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Originally Posted by Speedy I wouldn't do that if I were you...ebay could kick you off for false listing...if the coin is not a error I wouldn't list it as an error.
Speedy | It is my opinion -- one that is shared by many others -- that strike doubling IS a minting error. After all, it is related to the downstroke of the hammer die. It can sometimes be so severe that you end up with distinctly duplicated and well-separated design elements. To dismiss it as damage is, I think, a form of special pleading.
Alan Herbert considers it "damage", but I respectfully differ in my assessment. I am happy to pay, and have paid, as much as $75 for extreme cases of strike doubling. Heavily doubled Sac dollars have sold on eBay for well over $100 (which I think is excessive).
That being said, most cases of strike doubling are trivial and have little collector value.
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03-14-2005, 07:53 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montana
Posts: 192
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Originally Posted by Hardy | Your cent is a classic example of strike doubling. Check out the sticky thread at the top of this form on die doubling...
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03-14-2005, 10:01 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8
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After reading quite a bit of literature on the internet I now understand about master dies and working dies and how doubled die coins are created.
Also, I was not aware the mint mark was punched into the working die after the fact. I am assumind the date is part of the master die.
That still does not explain how after the die is set in place and by a "bouncing/chattering die" only a small part of the coin is doubled. Wouldn't the metal on the coin or die have to stretch or bend for this to occur.
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03-14-2005, 10:06 PM
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#15 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,513
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Originally Posted by Hardy That still does not explain how after the die is set in place and by a "bouncing/chattering die" only a small part of the coin is doubled. Wouldn't the metal on the coin or die have to stretch or bend for this to occur. |
A better way of putting it other than stretching or bending might be - pushed or scraped off to the side.
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