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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >   LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes 04-17-2009, 10:26 AM   #1 (permalink) asciibaron /dev/work/null     Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 736 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn Well, for one this, flame not withstanding, XMK is not a database, its an SGML programming dialect and if he used more sensible tools he would have more portability, fewer bugs and a faster runtime environment... your preferred programming matrix matters how with regard to the OP's program? i like to program in Ruby and PERL, so you all suck? seriously, grow up.   04-18-2009, 12:50 AM   #2 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 Quote: Originally Posted by asciibaron your preferred programming matrix matters how with regard to the OP's program? i like to program in Ruby and PERL, so you all suck? seriously, grow up. Well, I didn't ask him to write it in smalltalk, or ADA, two of my favorite languages, but the choice of C# is unversally considered poor. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-18-2009, 07:02 AM   #3 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn Well, I didn't ask him to write it in smalltalk, or ADA, two of my favorite languages, but the choice of C# is unversally considered poor. You're confusing "universally considered" with "in my opinion". And please spam more random text that contain words like "c# sucks", "f***ing" etc without a source. I won't read it.   04-17-2009, 05:37 PM   #4 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn Well, for one this, flame not withstanding, XMK is not a database, its an SGML programming dialect XML files can be used as local databases. What's your point? Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn and if he used more sensible tools he would have more portability, fewer bugs and a faster runtime environment... Different langs. fits different purposes.   04-18-2009, 12:39 AM   #5 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 Quote: Originally Posted by bullionbox XML files can be used as local databases. What's your point? Different langs. fits different purposes. uhhh ... no it is not. It is an SGML dialect. Btrees are though. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-18-2009, 06:41 AM   #6 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn uhhh ... no it is not. It is an SGML dialect. I said that XML files can be used as local databases. I didn't say that XML was a database system or a query language. I know what XML is. From wikipedia: Quote: A database is a structured collection of records or data that is stored in a computer system. The structure is achieved by organizing the data according to a database model.   04-18-2009, 12:48 AM   #7 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 BTW - the point is that fuzzy thinking about the problem leads to fuzzy inconsistant results and poor solutions This as a start for Database theory http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~maier/TheoryBook/TRD.html or Foundations of Databases. Addison-Wesley about the mid 1990s or Database Concepts. 3rd ed. Prentice It would help to have a programming background on linked list, sorting, binary sorting, btrees, indexing theory... for starters.. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-18-2009, 07:08 AM   #8 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn BTW - the point is that fuzzy thinking about the problem leads to fuzzy inconsistant results and poor solutions Another completely random statement not connected to anything I've written. Could you give me anything concrete and fact based?   04-18-2009, 11:27 AM   #9 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 Quote: Originally Posted by bullionbox Another completely random statement not connected to anything I've written. Could you give me anything concrete and fact based? aside from what I already posted and the fact that you've decided to not read it? Some people you can't teach. You can decide to be one of those people or not. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #10 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn aside from what I already posted and the fact that you've decided to not read it? Ruben I read what you "posted". Actually, you only quoted some random rantings without providing any source to the "articles" whatsoever. The only thing you wrote was the word "commentary" followed by some random BS that you didn't even explain. Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn Some people you can't teach. You can decide to be one of those people or not. I don't take courses in gibberish, no thank you.   04-18-2009, 07:00 AM   #11 (permalink) weryon Self proclaimed messiah     Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Canada , New-Brunswick Posts: 782 funny stuff !!!   04-18-2009, 03:39 PM   #12 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 BTW - I'm the only individual who has posted any information on the C# implementations thos far but I'll just happily post further pertanant facts http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono Quote: Argument In Brief 1. Microsoft's C#/CLI licensing people, at high levels, are aware of us. 2. Microsoft can choose to do damaging things in the current C#/CLI licensing ambiguity. 3. Microsoft considers the free software / Linux community to be a major competitive threat 4. Microsoft does not "compete" gently 5. A + B + C + D = ? The word pile amassed below defends points (1) and, in particular, (2). I take points (3) and (4) as given. I leave point (5) an exercise for the reader. ;-) Stupid Disclaimer Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know if these disclaimers are important. But given the nature of the topic, I'll play it safe and write one. I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice, its just a dump my current thinking on an issue. It does not represent my employer's opinion. It may represent my cat's opinion, but only on the second tuesday of summer months. Restatement of the Issue Miguel has repeatedly stated that the patents necessary to implement the standards ECMA-334 (C#) and ECMA-335 (CLI) are available from Microsoft "RAND + Royalty Free". This seems like an effective open patent grant and encouraged me initially that we could do Mono. I really like Mono. Its terrific technically, and I'd love to be able to use it. But two problems upon further consideration the past couple months: 1. I've not seen an official statement by Microsoft that will let me trust the royalty free assertion. I think we are remiss if we do not assume Microsoft is looking for ways to, quite frankly, screw us. So unless there is a statement from Microsoft that they will have to stick to in a court, I feel (at the very least) uncomfortable. 2. "RAND + royalty free", can still seriously screw Free Software. I think this is more important than the first point. Even with RAND + royalty free you still have to execute a license agreement with Microsoft, and license agreements can stipulate things that are RAND from a corporation perspective but still screw over Free Software. Also, there is evidence that key Microsoft people are already aware of (or planned?) incompatibilities between the licensing scheme for C#/CLI and, at least, the GPL. The eye of Sauron is upon us. RAND + royalty free is very different from a patent grant. In short, we are in an adversarial situation. Microsoft does not want us to succeed. Thus we cannot trust Microsoft, even if we'd like to, and must consider Mono based upon the question "What is the worst thing MS can reasonably do?". We can only trust Mono if we are convinced Microsoft doesn't have weasel room. The current situation appears, to me, to have lots of weasel room. The technical merits of Mono are basically irrelevant if its a trojan horse in the long term. http://www.gnome.org/~seth/#argumentinbrief http://www.osnews.com/comments/7094 http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/106530/index.html http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.p...3&cid=13745664 http://forums.devshed.com/net-develo...ind-53765.html http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userb...try=3266690591 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...m/1028538.html http://fsfe.org/documents/rms-fs-2006-03-09.en.html#q1 http://www.osnews.com/thread?355453 http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement...2090988,00.htm Quote: Other constraints could hamper an open-source effort as well, Goodhew said. Creating software that implements the CLI standard will require Microsoft technology that will be released through ECMA, Goodhew said. And the licence under which that software is released may not be compatible with the licences that govern Mono and DotGNU, he said. "Part of the ECMA [standardisation process] provides a forum for us to license the intellectual property you will need to have to implement the standard," Goodhew said. "It's up to the implementers to make sure whatever licence they choose to use is compatible with the ECMA licensing terms." http://www.mail-archive.com/mono-lis.../msg03620.html So in a nutshell...if you want to create something riddled with MS patents and which impair your distribution of code, or an implementation of the CLI, and which is also slow and inefficient...C# is your clear choice. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-19-2009, 07:04 AM   #13 (permalink) bullionbox Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 20 Quote: Originally Posted by mrbrklyn ..So in a nutshell...if you want to create something riddled with MS patents and which impair your distribution of code, or an implementation of the CLI, and which is also slow and inefficient...C# is your clear choice. Ruben I respect your stance on open source software, but I made this small app to meet my own needs. Since I'm stuck with windows I decided that c# was the best language for my own egoistic needs. I'm actually a fan of open source and I hope that more people will discover linux and OSS, but I'm not fundamentalistic about it (not saying u are).   04-19-2009, 09:35 AM   #14 (permalink) mrbrklyn CEO of Brooklyn     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 10,117 My Mood: Blog Entries: 3 Quote: Originally Posted by bullionbox I respect your stance on open source software, but I made this small app to meet my own needs. Since I'm stuck with windows I decided that c# was the best language for my own egoistic needs. I'm actually a fan of open source and I hope that more people will discover linux and OSS, but I'm not fundamentalistic about it (not saying u are). Its the interoperability problem that bothers me and the patent encroachment and the runtime environments. FWIW - I'm not a Java fan either, I hate Java programs in business. But at least it isn't legally bound up like a snarl. Ruben __________________ "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society." Coin Talk Museum Exhibits http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html   04-18-2009, 04:07 PM   #15 (permalink) rdo Senior Member     Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 124 My Mood: BullionBox, would you repost the app or provide a link to it please? I would like to see how you laid it out.   Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 > Bookmarks Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Would you like to support CoinTalk? Coin Talk Code of Honor 1. Post unto others as you would have them post unto you. 2. Keep it clean, like a 1950s family television show. 3. 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