What about eBay? - Page 3

**GDJMSP** · 07-26-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrover

Whatever prices knowledgeable buyers and sellers buy and sell to each (e.g. many dealer to dealer transactions ), you are avoiding addressing what dealers pay to those sellers "who don't know any better" for their coins, which is as low as they can possibly pay, and then take it or leave it, with no give above greysheet.

mike

No, Mike I'm avoiding it at all. It's just a different subject. But since you brought it up - you are quite correct. There are plenty of unscrupulous dealers out there who will pay collectors less for coins than they should. And every single time that I hear someone tell a story like that - I recommend that they find another dealer.

But if a dealer is offering a collector Greysheet bid for a coin - that is a very fair price and even better than the industry standard. Most reputable dealers will typically offer only 15% - 20% less than Greysheet bid. That is the industry standard.

Yes I know that many collectors feel that this is unfair and that dealers should offer more - but they don't and that is to be expected. That is the way that the coin market works and always has. The biggest problem is that many collectors don't know this because they seldom sell anything. So when they do they often feel like they are getting ripped off because they receive less than retail value. But they aren't - they are being offered fair prices. I've been on the selling end before and I can tell you that 15% below Greysheet bid is about as good an offer as you will get - from any dealer. If they paid more than Greysheet - they'd go out of business - very quickly. And before you ask, no I am not a dealer - never have been and never will be.

**umtrr-author** · 07-26-2006, 10:08 AM

The amount of overhead required to run a brick and mortar shop is orders of magnitude larger than running an eBay business out of one's house. (For one thing, the "paperwork" requirement, i.e. sales tax filings, income declaration, can be avoided, but that's another story.) So you'd expect that a dealer would take the difference between the buy and sell price as a margin large enough to make a decent living.

I can understand looking askance at a dealer who really lowballs a seller, i.e. the "Ignorant Widow" syndrome-- "Gee, this 1804 dollar isn't really worth all that much, I'll give you a break and pay you $5 for it"-- but so far I have not run into anyone even close to that dishonest in this field. (Though I have in other hobbies, for sure. A word to the wise that I don't like to think about: make sure that someone you can trust understands the true value of your collection before it's too late.)

What's missing from the equation is, of course, what the typical eBay professional dealer (as opposed to the casual seller) paid for the coins that he or she is selling. That could be pretty low as well, and of course it's not likely that we will know. No specific examples or accusations here; just an observation.

Speaking further of that Internet Auction Community: I had an example of a potential bargain on watch the other day: a common date Liberty (V) nickel that was described as Uncirculated went for just $28. (I already deleted the listing so I forget the date, maybe 1911 or 1912, definitely a 19xx without mintmark.) That's a reasonable price for an AU, for example, according to the price lists I have. Problem was that only the obverse of the coin was pictured, making the reverse an unknown. I think that made the transaction risky; I might have taken a chance at that price point (had I actually remembered to bid-- oops) but it would have been taking a chance for sure.

This is just one of many examples of why the eBay marketplace can be a minefield. Poor photos, bad descriptions, ridiculous terms, arrogant verbiage, outrageous shipping... they can all contribute to a lower than "expected" sale price. On the other hand, it only takes two, ah, let's say "Highly motivated buyers"?... to push a final price well above what most of us would consider to be "normal range." As I've noted before, I am very comfortable buying model trains on eBay; and was selling before the nickel and diming got to be too much for me as a casual seller. But for coins, it's been mostly "window shopping" there, followed by a trip to my local dealer with the question, "Do you have this?"

900fine · 07-26-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umtrr-author

Problem was that only the obverse of the coin was pictured, making the reverse an unknown. I think that made the transaction risky; I might have taken a chance at that price point (had I actually remembered to bid-- oops) but it would have been taking a chance for sure.

This is just one of many examples of why the eBay marketplace can be a minefield.

... and also why slabbing by TPGs has lessened the risk.

Seems to me there are two ENORMOUS factors that complement each other, and have revolutionized the hobby:

TPG slabbing
the Internet marketplace

The Internet would be FAR more dangerous, and thus far less populated, if not for TPG slabbing.

I'm not saying that TPG slabbing is perfect - a quick perusal of the "About MS70 grading" thread, still very active, proves that.

I'm just saying that TPG slabbing is darn good and has given a lot of confidence to a lot of folks who might otherwise stay away - particularly for the better pieces.

It's interesting to note that prices for better coins escalated dramatically in the late 80's - just as PCGS and NGC were comin' on strong.

We're in another surge now... as the "TPG slabbing + Internet" combo continues to mature.

**De Orc** · 07-26-2006, 02:00 PM

A coin or any other item is worth precisly what someone will pay for it, it matters not if that person is knowlagable in the given field. Graysheet/Redbook/Beckett etc are nothing more than Price Guides (the emphasis is on Guide) As for a knowlagable person not paying over the odds for a coin LOL then what if that coin is the one needed to compleat a run ? or a coin they have been after for a long time

Ebay weather we like it or not has changed the world of coin buying for good, and in the long run I belive the average dealer will have to adapt or go out of buisness, my reasoning for this is more people will begin to sell there unwanted coins on the bay in the knowlage that they might well get more than is offerd by a dealer.
How often do we see in regular coin auctions selling for well over estimate? well then they have reached there true value, the same can be said of the coins that do not sell, on that day they were over valued to that market.

De Orc

skm06 · 08-21-2006, 11:30 PM

The funny thing is you're all right to some extent, in my opinion anyway. If you need your collection to be liquid,and sell it at a moments notice, then Ebay may not work, making it worth only what any collector will pay for it right now,(knowledgeable buyer) or dealer unfortunately. Like De Orc said though, sometimes even in people with knowledge, impulse takes over and they just want that coin now.
But we've all seen ridiculous bids on ebay I'm sure. Some buyers will have a bidding war when a listing still has 5 or 6 days to go.
I've had it happen plenty of times. Put up what should be a fair bid, only to keep being outbid by some to whom it's just the competition. They just don't care what they pay,they're going to beat you. Sometimes I'll just keep bidding out of spite because you can just tell they will keep bidding. Luckily , it hasn't cost me yet and always stop before it's too late.

eddyk · 08-22-2006, 06:01 AM

That's not very nice

I got outbid on all the current state quarters on UK ebay (BU)...they sold for £20 ($40) in the end.

So I started looking for them again...come accross things like this...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/all-38-US-STAT...QQcmdZViewItem
One of only 2 complete quarter sets on UK ebay.

Which work out at $1.73 per quarter...RIP OFF

So I waltzed on over to US ebay, and found a guy selling an up to date set of state quarters for £6...29 cents each...and they were in a folder.

If you're looking for bargains (compared to UK ebay) UK buyers...check out US ebay.
Check the postage though.

PJGS · 11-19-2006, 07:15 PM

Well, ebay is a two-edged sword.
Variety is huge but we can be led into wasting some money. When it comes to buying coins, a clear pic does wonders as the seller's description can be very misguiding. S&H is one thing that really puts me off. Some sellers seem to use that as a source of extra income. Maybe a way to avoid ebay's fees.
One thing is for sure, ebay is changing the market for the average collector, at least in Portugal. I, for instance, bought a coin for €30 while the street price is around €80. It was a unique opportunity, but many coins are cheaper than the street price. How will the dealers deal with that?. I don't know.
ebay USA is even cheaper than the european ones, especially due to the exchange rate but I may get caught by the custom office and duties are heavy.

As a seller, I think ebay isn't very good for low cost items. Ebay+paypal take a nice chunk out of the final price but not accepting paypal reduces the number of potential clients, thus things will sell for less. It's some sort of catch-22 situation.

PEdoubleNIZZLE · 11-20-2006, 05:28 AM

When I want to sell low priced items, I usually end up selling them as a lot. I also charge the real shipping rates, not making money off of it. I also give a few options for shipping, including plain old first class USPS.

Treashunt · 11-21-2006, 10:47 AM

I agree that ebay's fees are far too high, but whatis the alternative?
Until someone somes up with a better auction site, where can you go to dump the stuff that you don't want to keep?
However, that said, the best lots for prices realized are apparently junk coins, and miscl. lots.
Even after fees you still walk away with something for the coins that you don't want for your collection, and some cash to buy something that you do want.

bzcollektor · 11-29-2006, 10:32 PM

Right now, Ebay Traffic and Sales are at thier PEAK. So are Gold and Silver prices (at least in recent months)
Now till Chrismas is the best time to sell on Ebay. Probably the worst time to look for bargains. The coin market continues to be strong. New products, new interest.

If you have been thinking about Ebay, now might be a good time.

mmh1980 · 12-09-2006, 01:26 AM

Hello,

On eBay, I like to view completed auctions by checking the box on the lower left part of the page and clicking search. It's a quick way of establishes an eBay "market" price; it also shows that apparently nice coins sometimes get low-balled.

For buyers who frequently check the Morgan and Peace auctions hoping for good prices (like myself), I've put up a small website with links to Morgan and Peace dollars by grade (e.g. MS-65 only), mintmark, and key dates. The idea of my site is that frequent bidders who rapidly conduct alot of searches will find it more convenient to click on links rather than retype search terms. The site, called Silver Dollar Finder, is at http://silver-dollar-finder.com. Please feel free to visit the site and offer me any suggestions. You may email me at mmh1280@hotmail.com

Thank you

satootoko · 12-09-2006, 02:44 AM

to CoinTalk mmh.

Morgans and Peace Dollars are among the vast majority of US coins that I don't collect, but if I did I'd certainly use your site quite often. Congratulations on a well done job.

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