Pick-a-nik

Hello, I'm new to the site; it's great there's a place to discuss and share varieties we come across. I often pick up Jefferson Rolls to look for varieties. I don't have a cherrypickers book so I know only about the varieties in the Red Book and Allen and Potters "Strike it Rich with Pocket Change" book. I recently purchased about 10 rolls of Jefferson's and found quite a few neat varieties, some of which I'm not completely sure of. I found about 9 Large 41-S nickels which was about 20% of the 41-s's I searched (I doubt the the Large S is really as tough as some think it is). Anyway I also found a nice 55-d/s, a 41-s/s/s small s, a very widely repuched 52-d/d, a 41-S/S large S, and my best find a 46-d/horz d. I also found another 46-d over something possibly another reg. d possibly and s I'll try attaching a pic to see what others think or tell (my scanners not great so the pic. not real clear. I would also like to post a pic. of another nickel which I think might be the 41-s upsidedown variety, I'm not sure about it however, let me know what you think. Thanks for reading.

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Speedy

It is hard to tell from those scans--can you make your DPI higher?

The 52 d/d looks like machine doubling from here...not an RPM.
It is hard to tell if the 41-S is inverted or not---if you can get a clearer shot it would be best.

Speedy

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Pick-a-nik

Hi, Thanks for the quick response. I know my scanner doesn't give very clear images, I've tried increasing the dpi but doesn't seem to help. I ran a scan of the 41-s (possible upsidedown) on my other scanner, don't really think it came much better but have attached it, I'll give up on rescanning the others. I wish I could get as clear of scans as coin look under my lamp and 10x lense. I did scan a couple of other interesting buffalo nickels I can across I think they show better detail and will post them on a seperate thread. Thanks again.

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bhp3rd

You really need a Cherry Pickers Guild, not only to know what to look for but, to better understand how the varieities happen.
I can't see very well your photos and they look very circ. condition. Sometimes it is very hard to determine a RPM or OMM when worn out so much. Not only are there no die markers left but any type of hit or scape can take on the form of a doubled mint mark.

The number one mistake new variety collector have is that they find a coin that sort of looks like a D/D or whatever and think it is that die. The variety has to look exactly like the known RPM or whatever to be that coin, not just sort of like. Variety collectors not only want high grade they want more than almost anything an "early die state".
That and firmly knowing the difference between a true doubled die and other forms of doubling - so many are just mechanical doubling that mimics a true doubled die.

Ben Peters

Pick-a-nik

Wanted to give a response to bhp3rd. Firstly, thanks for replying. I might take your advice and pick up a copy of Cherrypickers, maybe at the Portland show in March. I realize my scanner didn't give the best images but I'm fairly sure I can tell the difference between a hit or scar and a RPM. The 46-d/lazy d I have is exactly like that pictured in Breen even though the scan may not be real sharp. Anyway I agree with some of what you said in your response but have to strongly disagree with a couple of things. First if suspected RPM must look exactly like known expamples of the variety, as you claim, then no new varieties will or would be discovered. I believe some dates have many types of RPM's so just because I coin one owns doesn't exactly look like known examples doesn't mean it's not indeed a RPM. Lastly you claim variety collectors are really only interested in high grade examples. While I'm sure to some degree this is true, usually for the collector who has hundreds if not thousands of dollars of disposable income, the same can be said the the hobby as a whole. However I have to believe there's a large niche out there of collectors who are indeed interested in lower grade, more afforable examples. I also have to believe that if one were lucky enough to own one of these high grade OMM examples the last thing they'd want is a bunch of circulated examples of the same coin showing up, making the coin less rare. Anyway, thanks for replying I really do appreciate you taking the time to reply even if I don't agree with everything you believe.

Speedy

I would suggest not putting too much trust in the varieties listed in Breen. While the book is a great tool there are many mistakes in there....

Speedy

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bhp3rd

For Pic-Nic that's not quite what I said.

I said to be a certain variety it must look like that variety - see you were already identifying them as this or that die and what I meant was to be the this or that die it must look exactly like it. Many people esp. on eBay find a say 1983-P with minor mechanical doubling and claim it is 1983-P DDR-001 because the rev. is doubled. Most certainly you will find new varieties if you keep searching - I have discovered over 200 new RPM's and doubled dies.
Also, die state and crispness of a coins surface in of paramount importance to the variety collector after all it is the "thing that is visible" that is the whole enchilada - it is perfectly acceptable to collect anything you choose in any grade you choose but if you stay in varieties you will gravitate to the better grades - "that's what we want to see".
Please remember "we are looking for one working die that was hubbed more than once or a mintmark was punched more than once" - we want to see it.
Hope this helps,
Ben

Pick-a-nik

For bhp3rd. Ok, I think I see what your saying but I don't think I identified any die varities in my post-as I stated in my orginal post I don't have a book identifying particular varities, so I wouldn't know which paricular variety I have or don't have. I simply listed the coin as say a 52-d/d which to me means the coin has a underlying mint mark under another. I saw a dealer on ebay with a high grade example of the 46-d over lazy d with a buy-it-now price of four thousand some dollars, other dealers where asking seven to nine hundred dollars for ms example of the 49-d/s; so if this is a indication of what high grade examples of omms go for I don't see myself gravitating toward high grade coins. You seem to be very knowlegable and seem to have quite abit of experience with these varities-would enjoy seeing you post some of the 200 varities you've discovered, particulary if you have a 41-d/lazy d which is listed in Breen but no pic. To Speedy: I'm sure there are some errors in Breen but wouldn't you agree the same can be said of most publications and guides-including many published by the parent of this website.

Speedy

Well first off---the parent of this website doesn't publish coin books...

But yes---I would agree that most every book has errors. It is just noted that Breen, while a great book, has alot of errors that alot of collectors tend to over look.

Speedy

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